Grimstroke—Understanding the Hero
New Dota heroes generally follow the same pattern: they are too powerful at release and then start receiving a long series of small nerfs over the course of several months. Quite often they also do rather poorly in public matchmaking, not being played well or in an unsuitable roles. Because of this misuse and misunderstanding, their win rate generally starts at below 45%, with further nerfs exacerbating the problem.
Whether it is because of the new role-based ranked matchmaking or improved understanding of the game from the community, but Grimstroke has managed to avoid this fate. There is no question he is a support, and a very strong and versatile one at that. He was and probably still is a bit on the powerful side, and it is clear from his stats—in 5k+ games he was consistently over 50% win rate even after the nerfs.
So what exactly makes him a strong support worth picking in roughly third of our games?
Lane Dominance
Laning stage is incredibly important in the current meta and Grimstroke excels at it. He has one of the strongest level one nukes in the game, for a relatively low manacost. Crystal Maiden was propelled into meta when the damage on Crystal Nova was increased to 130 and she didn’t completely vanish out of it when the manacost on the spell was also increased. At level one she can use her Crystal Nova twice.
Grimstroke can use Stroke of Fate four times before he runs out of mana. It is also guaranteed to deal at least 120 damage and can do substantially more if the enemy positioning is off. Naturally, the spell is harder to land on multiple targets and it doesn’t slow as much, but it works wonders as a way of guaranteeing last hit on a ranged creep, while also harassing the enemy.
Beyond laning stage
The latter progression for the hero varies from player to player, with some opting to maximize Ink Swell, some preferring Phantom’s Embrace and some doing an even split between the two.
It is hard to say definitively which build is the better one: stats for the hero don’t show a clear winner, so depending on the game, going for either build can be the optimal choice. That said, many players still heavily undervalue and misunderstand Ink Swell—something we will try to change.
Ink Swell
The spell description is rather long and confusing and almost two weeks after the hero’s release many players even in high level pubs are struggling to fully understand and utilize the ability.
The defensive component is rather simple: affected hero cannot be attacked with right-clicks or attack-modifying attacks. They can still be targeted with spells, get caught in AoE and dealt damage, so this save it is at its best when used on an initiated ally, while most enemy spell are on cooldown. The target is also Disarmed and Silenced, but moves faster, allowing it to either start escaping, or, preferrably, counter-initiate. It is also dispellable—something worth keeping in mind when playing against heroes like Oracle.
The offensive part of the spell is a little bit trickier. The DoT part is similar to Ion Shell, attempting to deal damage to all heroes in a 400-radius. The big finale, however, is probably one of the most confusing parts of the hero.
Ink Swell DoT deals damage to all enemies in a 400 radius in 0.2 second intervals, gaining a “charge” for each instance of damage dealt to enemy heroes or Arc Warden’s Tempest Double. The amount of charges is capped at 30—the value at which Ink Swell expire effect will deal the maximum amount of damage and apply the longest duration stun for the level.
With three seconds of DoT and 0.2 damage instances, the most you can get from continuously damaging a single target for the full duration is 15 charges, resulting in 110/140/170/200 damage and 1.1/1.4/1.7/2-second stun. This alone is decent value, considering the ability will also deal 75 damage from DoT effect, meaning that you can always deal 185 damage and apply a 1.1-second stun to a single target, at level one of the ability. For 90 mana.
With multiple targets getting to max value becomes much easier. Three-second stun is massive in a game of Dota and with level 4 of Ink Swell it can be achieved by simply following a target, while passing by one of its allies for roughly a second. This ability is absolutely game-changing and is the reason why here at Dotabuff, despite conflicting statistics, we strongly suggest maxing Ink Swell over Phantom’s Embrace, especially if you are playing with friends and can coordinate with them.
Phantom’s Embrace
This ability is by no means bad—it can deal a lot of damage while silencing the enemy and works decently well with Grimstroke’s ultimate, Soulbind.
That said, maxing it gives less value than maxing Ink Swell in most cases, given decent understanding of the latter. Phantom’s Embrace is very good as a value point and gets a decent qualitative upgrade at level three, but the difference between level three and level four is rarely worth an extra skill point, if you have other spells to upgrade.
Choosing the right talents
At level 10, there is a choice between 90 GPM and +30 Movement Speed and most players understandably default to the former. GPM talents always prove to be very effective and despite a -0.3% win rate differential in favor of the latter, we would still recommend going for an economy booster. 30 extra MS is massive, but given the role of the hero and how he can easily afford to stay very far in the backlines more often than not it is redundant.
+125 Cast Range at level 15 is more or less mandatory and probably require no explanation—the further you stay from the frontline, the more you can do as a support, getting better choice of targets and maximizing your mana pool effectiveness without being initiated on. +12% Spell Amplification is maybe worth considering if you are playing core Grimstroke, but there are a lot of much more viable hero options when it comes to core positions.
At level 20, going for +600 Stroke of Fate cast range can sound very appealing, but most of the time is only really worth it if you are forced to play defensively against highly mobile heroes. It doesn’t do much in teamfights, but does provide an option of outpushing from the safety of your fountain, deep inside your base. Otherwise, the extra two hits on Phantom’s Embrace will do much more for your teamfight presence. Stroke of Fate is the hero’s most iconic tool, but you can’t expect to win games if it is the only ability you are using effectively and 2000+ cast range won’t come into play if you intend on using your other abilities with ~1000 cast range.
Finally, at level 25 +200 Ink Swell radius is a clear winner, despite, once again, many players defaulting to the Stroke of Fate upgrade. This radius upgrade increases the already respectable AoE of Ink Swell by 125%, making it a lot easier to achieve the 4-second stun on multiple targets. Your team has to be exceptionally underfarmed and underleveled to not be able to capitalize on a highly probable 4-second stun on two+ enemy heroes.
Closing thoughts
Somehow we managed to talk about Grimstroke for so long without ever touching his ultimate and it should be an indication of how potent the hero is. Grimstroke in his current form is an incredibly powerful hero even without good synergies with his ultimate. In fact, in many games we’ve seen the hero being played, the best results were generally achieved when his ultimate was used as soon as an enemy hero was in vision, providing shared vision to your team and slowing the opponent.
Doubling the effectiveness of some spells is certainly something you want to do, but given how Soulbind will automatically latch to any enemy hero coming into AoE, not using it as soon as possible is often a mistake.
Grimstroke is a hero who is quite easy to utilize effectively and who can get absolutely overpowered when played by highly dedicated heroes. He is going to get nerfed and he is going to get nerfed pretty heavily, probably before the beginning of the new DPC season, so we strongly recommend playing and learning the hero now.
1st firsttime lmao
Grimstroke alone is very weak if the enemy already understand how he works and the facts that his ult itself is useless for him. Doubling phantom embrace sounds good, double 5 scnds silence, 360 + 150 dmg, but with phantom embrace moving time and the fact that it still goes to massive cooldown if one of them died is ver troubling since phantom only need to get hit twice early game to give ez 40 gold
I think Grimstroke is completely bullshit broken early game. Here's the quick rundown:
Q. Stroke of Fate - I don't care about, it's a potent nuke that works opposite to Windranger Powershot, the more people it passes through, the more damage it does.
W. Phantom Embrace - tooptips is a lie, it says "cannot be dispelled", but I just manta'd it in demo hero mode. It was a welcome relief because it would literally be cheating if it required 5 hits to get rid of silence.
E. Inkswell is the real cancer. No hero should have Surge, Phase Shift, Ion Shell, AOE stun -nuke that can be cast on both yourself and allies. It's like Decrepify/Astral Prison/Disruption, where you can move away quick. It's aburdely strong as gapcloser or saving a dived teamate.
R. Sould Bind - BKB piercing slow 45% (Linken's Absorbs tho) , not dispellable. If no teammate nearby, you're untethered and it's literally just a slow. Which is fint to just use it as, Ursa and Troll will hate you.
If an ally is in range you will get linked and unable to run away from each other for the duration. You CAN however RUN AWAY TOGETHER though, at roughly half of your normal speed - which I suggest. Because if tethered every single targeted spell+items will be copied onto your rope-buddy Example; Eblade + Adaptive Strike, Hex, Finger of Death, Shaman Shackle, Fiend's Grip, Nullifier, Doom, Reaper's Schyte.
If Grimstroke is on your team save these abilities until you see the Soulbind Chains are up.
Summary/ Grimstroke's impact on the game:
In reality Grimlstroke is just like Oracle, kicks ass in lane, takes all your kills early game then he starts to believe he's a core and build as such (Why is there 4 wards in stock?), then you lose because your carries really needed those kills - after mid game no one gives a damn about a farmed Grimstroke. He comes in like Aladdin on his Inkswell carpet, gets Eul'sed and and Solo'd by an Ogre Magi support.
Manta is more than a dispell you noob
And nobody cares about what's broken in our archon 1 games
Very Funny the author didn't mention Inkswell cast range difference between levels, which is why it must a priority over Phantom Embrace.
And the itemization, for you people underestimating Phantom Embrace, I will disarm you in silence under Soulbind effect with your partner (Halberd in action)
Also, maxing Q means you go offlane and farm like a pos 3, which is retard, I prefer maxed E first of all and took Q (slow) and W (silence) just a single point respectively. Especially when Q is doing nothing with my ult, duh
Spectre and AM is exceptionally strong when equipped with E since they are generally resistant against magic
Does anyone have stats on Grimstroke winrate with different hero combos?
Like the Zeus & Spectre having 62+% winrate for a long time.
You can dispel phantom with manta because it gives invulnerability for 0.1 seconds thus removing it. It is the same with eul.
A purge does not remove phantom. only invis (without vision) or invulnerability can.
I've never lost to this hero yet. He's annoying but super easy to play around.
strong pos4 hero over all, he is kinda good in my option cuz its sorta 2 1 2 meta so he usually destroys lane
игыр(игр)
They need to rescale the dmg of stroke of fate at lvl 1 and/or increase its mana cost. The dmg is still a bit too high compares to other offensive support against offlane. ink well speed tweak is nice but maybe cut down the stunning time by 0.5 - 1 sec since it is still pretty broken at lvl 1 if players are miss positioning: it is good to get punished but the punishment is too harsh?(that is death sentence if got stunned as offlane with 2 onlane and one of them are grimstroke.)
you can pick what you want. it doesnt matter. it depends only on the skill.
most teammates so trash, you can pick what you want. it doesnt matter.
they have no skill. they trash talk. they blaime. they suck.
matchmaking is brocken. community is trash.
shutdown the servers and lets say it was a nice experiment. its failed because of the gamers.
gg rq
so stop making new heros!
repair the matchmaking!
all business analysts and developer resources for a good matchmaking!
scrum on!
@Dukenukem
Said a Guardian Player that had 3K matches total
That only play ranked
But still Guardian
I havent touched the hero cos its banned or picked everytime. 50% of the time grim is banned. However, I do know its broken, which is what many refused to admit. You have a 1st skill that does 300+dmg every 6 sec for an excellent cast range, even better than dp skill, and yet u cant win? Cos u never get soul ring and clarities and smoke so cheap items so ez to abuse.
So you are telling me to abuse this skill to reap farm as pos 3? or Pos 2? or even worse, pos 1?
Next time you are able to touch the said hero, please don't.
He is better as pos 4 and 5 given his ability set, give the farm to your core dude. Here's a hint :
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/4098413281
8K Networth, 20 LH minute 33 is enough for him to make a game impact
Horrible between the 0 to 10 Min mark but after that is completely irrelevant.. heck it's even worst hero then dark willow..
Myth 1: Supports dont need damage
Myth 2: Supports dont need farm
Myth 3: If supports are fatter than carries, its the supports fault
When you give a hero a position, you follow with the above assumptions. I may be wrong, these may not be your assumptions, but the point is that you may be making assumptions that does not always hold true.
What I can tell you is that, the higher the damage, the better, the more items, the better, but in most cases, priority farm shld be given to carries, that is another issue to consider.
As strong as the hero appears to be on paper, he definitely comes with asterisks next to each of his abilities.
Stroke of Fate is the most straightforward of his abilities, and therefore has the smallest asterisk. The range is a little svelte especially if you're used to Windranger, and it takes getting used to the sideswipe of the ability. Still, it's fantastic for getting extra farm from the jungle while your carry mops up the lane, and you can stack and pull the dire easy camp into a stroke and hit the camp behind it near shrine.
Phantoms are a silence, sure, but they have travel time and there are quite a few counters to them before the attack increase talent. Geminate attack ruins any advantage the silence would otherwise get on Weaver, and the travel time makes it less useful against something like a storm spirit. Anyone with a lane partner shouldn't have much issue with the spell provided good communication, so it's best utility in laning stage is for ganking mid.
Ink Swell has potential to do huge damage and stun, but the high cooldown and proximity requirement before final tick means you won't be seeing utility from it until the laning stage is over. Gotta be careful who you throw it on, too, it could really ruin a teamfight if you use it on your carry when they are attempting to deal right clicks. Best partner is Dark Seer as he can surge first then run in, stun, and vacuum.
Soulbind is one of those 'great by design' skills that defines perpetually good heroes. Seriously, cut the damage and effect duration on the secondary target in half and it will still be a game changing skill. It still has the potential to be totally useless, but that seems to be the case with his entire kit. But any one of his skills can dictate the pace of your team, and like Black Hole, the fear of being caught by and of Grimstroke's abilities is as scary as the skills being activated. This hero changes so much about the battle that you feel out of your element.
The rewards certainly outweigh the risk moderately too much right now, but aside from removing attack immunity and speed increase on Ink Swell, there doesn't seem to be too much here that needs more than a modest numbers tweak. As others have pointed out, he definitely feels pretty early game oritnted despite some skills kicking in only after the laning stage. Whether that's just the nature of a support or not is up for debate, though.