"And no he can't engage teamfights 20-25 minutes without an illusion army of at least 5-6 illusions already up" Dobbelwalk + Spirit lance + eventually manta = 4 illusions + your hero and it takes like 2-3 hits before 5-10 more will be up. Its not rocket science, its easy to get the illusions going, its not like they will instantly destroy them when ure initiating in, its not like ure meant to sent one at a time, but pop them all at once and they dont know what to do. I love how u bring ME into the debate when it comes to whether PL is imba or not, how mature is that? Are u fucking 12 year olds, since that is ur way of arguing? Ad ad hominem my friend, stay away from it if u cant handle a debate.
When i get home from work i enjoy playing a couple games while enjoying a beer or a cup of coffee, im just having fun and having a good time, not being a stat whoring kid trying to act like smurf just like you do.
If i wanted to get +50% winrate, it would be no problem. But idgaf because that is not what matters. What matters is having fun, and thats what the game is about, atleast for me at this point. And yeah, i have many drow games when i first started out because i didnt know the game and i wanted to play a hero that was easy and a hero i felt comfortable with, so while sorting the game out my first many games where with traxex just so i got to learn how to farm etc (when going from Dota to Dota2) i never play Drow now unless its SD or AR, otherwise never.
Try harder, ethug. You're new to this game with your 80 games, eventually u will learn the mechanics of this game at some later point where u have more experience.
Better stats? K, u can quit the trolling now, its good.
U have played 80 games lmfao, my friend started dota 2 weeks ago and he has 90 games with a winrate of 65%, nothing to be proud of. Welcome to the game.
Have you watched the game? If not, plz do so, and tell me whether i fed or not, tell me whether or not i tried to farm, thank you.
Are you still gonna comment on me being in the normal bracket? Lol. I told u i just play for fun while i enjoy a cup of coffee when i get tired home after work, not to be some king of this game like you think you are. If i really wanted to get into the high bracket i dont think it would be too much of a problem. :) I like how you constantly turn the subject around me instead of what the topic is rlly about, typical example of a troll.
I don't need to know what you did in that game, because you have a 37% win rate, 1.9KDA and 350 GPM with AM, so I am not about to hesitate to call you shit with him. Obviously its different with just a handful of games where a couple bad games can warp your stats, but shit, you have played 43 games with him. One can only conclude that you are exceptionally bad at the hero. Most of your 40 minute games (with battlefury) and you don't even have close to 200CS, and then there is even a 50 minute game where you only have 199CS, again with battlefury. lol. And its not like you are playing opponents that make it difficult either, you are playing in the normal bracket for fuck sake.
And its not like you don't have the scores: 4-14, 1-9, 2-9, 3-13 in the 4 games after...
Even "casual" players who have played for an extended period of time are better than that, and here you are, not only being crap at the game, but also trying to pretend you know anything about balance or the competitive scene. You keep saying 10 years, but you don't show any of that in your play nor your knowledge of the game.
And none of your arguments hold true in a real game, and I think anyone with a decent amount of experience is just laughing at the kind of views you are giving here.
Lance 1 unit, that illusion dies almost instantly, if we are assuming 20-25 minutes into the game, which is the kind of time heroes like LD will be pushing for rax. Juxtapose, dies instantly. Manta illusions, they go down quick too. Unless idk, you have manta + HoT + Diffusal + Butterfly that quick into the game? Or you decide to give free farm to PL without going super aggressive on the other lanes of having your Gyro/Sven free farm?
http://dotabuff.com/matches/140937120 Radiant side very far ahead, but Gyro goes straight for BKB + Rapier, and there is absolutely nothing PL can do.
Try playing a brewmaster in an offensive trilane or mid, rush AB + Dagger and get a gem. See what PL is able to do in that game.
Try playing an offensive lineup with LD + Leshrac or whoever, drop towers. Take the rax while PL still can't do anything.
Try playing Puck mid, see what PL can do.
PL is a decent hero at the moment, but is no where near OP, and definitely doesn't deserve a nerf. I'd much have a LD on my team.
You have only played 80 games of dota, and u think u know everything about dota because of 80 games? I have 2k+ games (when we count in different accounts) so i think when it comes to dota2 experience i am much ahead of you. 57% is actually embarassing when taking into consideration that you have premade matches and that you are facing fucking retards when u have played 0 games so therefore the first 10 games is easy if u know a little bit about the game. All these smurfs can easily get 85% winrate for the first 50 games and then it will drop till about 75 during the next 100 games, so your winrate is completely embarassing, and therefore a kid with 80 games shouldnt try and teach me about Dota. But lets look at one of your games then - 134392164 - im not even gonna comment on ur shitty ass build. You are the fucking only carry on your team, and look what u are building? You are supposed to carry if u know wtf that is.
Dude, ur not supposed to pop spirit lance once then stand back, you are supposed to use everything at once; dobbelwalk - manta - spirit lance, boom 5 illusions which will crack into 15 illusions in a matter of 1-2 seconds.
And, your second of example where u talk about an offensive trilane with a leshrac pick etc is games where u wanna try and end the game fast, which is exactly the point if u are going up against a PL. Because that is your chance to win. You are acting like i stated that PL wins 100% of the games? PL is op, but u can still win games - ofcourse you can, you will just have a much rouger time winning if the game is extended by any means than if you are going up against a void and u have a hard carry your self. And its not just easy to push towers, because if a team somehow manages to pick up both kotl and pl, it will not be easy to end the game fast because the kotl blast will keep them back for a good while which gives pl access to farm, or either free farm in one of the other lanes.
Right, because dota 1 didn't exist? Mate you have a <50% win rate and still play in the fucking normal bracket after 2000 games, you say? 2000 games mate. I've played 80 and I play in the VH bracket. My last game my opponents had 350-1100 games, 52%+WR (57% for people with lower games). And its funny, because the people you play against are worse, you play in the normal bracket, do you even know what that means? There is a reason the enemies you play all have <50%, its because they are fucking bad, just like you. Honestly, you guys are part of a special group that makes no sense, how one can play this game and be so bad, its truly something to be proud of.
Most of my games are actually solo queue, see that 8 game winning streak? Only one of those games was queued with other people.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/134392164 Still learning how to play dota are you? I was actually trying to push constantly in this match, and WD/WR are far better carries, so I focused on tanking the hits where possible to protect them both. Not that you would know much about any of that. I guess you have no idea how much damage a WD with Aghs + BKB does, or how effective WR can be with late game with her 1.5 BAT and natural tankiness from STR + long evasion time and good range. Its too bad neither of these 2 guys knew how to fight at all and both would only enter the fight after undying and myself had died - even though they were standing right behind us.
But are you really trying to teach me how to carry? Mate you have 1 hero with over 500GPM, not going to include your treant protector game as its a result of just fountain farming. How shit are you? You have played 43 games with AM, have a 37% win rate, and a piss poor 358 GPM.
I've had a look at your games, and its a fucking joke, do you auto attack creeps or something? In none of the games I saw - even the wins, did you even manage 4CS/Min, which is just plain embarrassing.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/162131269 Nice 74 CS in a 30 minute game with PL, you truly are a professional carry, please teach me doto
http://dotabuff.com/matches/159230185 136 CS in a 41 minute game with Sven? You even maxed cleave after stun, so one would think you might actually farm. I guess not.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/158768244 - The AM game you won (by that I mean you did fucking nothing and got carried by Furion). And oh look, 41 minute game, you have battlefury, and still a shitbad 138CS.
And so you "pop" every image creating thing you have, lance will be the only one landing any hits as it actually spawns next to the unit you use it on, your manta illusions and juxtapose are most likely going to die against any cleave/AoE, these 3 illusions are gone. And then that's it for a period, if those illusions are dead, you can't do squat.
And no, PL isn't that scary, its not that he is unbeatable late game or something, sure he is strong here. Its because he is actually WEAK to early pushes. There is a difference between being scared of late game potential and abusing his weakness early game. People aren't pushing and raxing 20 minutes in because PL is too strong late game, they are doing it because he is so weak at this point in the game to pushes.
Yeah, the players i play against are worse, BUT SO ARE THE TEAMMATES, i solo queue all the time and in rare instanses i queue up with some of my rlly bad friends to teach them Dota and have a good time with them - which is certainly not something that benefits my WR at all. Heck, i even get paired with players that pick nyx and pops stun before hitting out of invisibility, Dark seer without ultimate, an omniknight jungling all game, trust me - ive seen it all. Also in my 2k games - NONE of the roaming support heroes have stacked ancients, NONE. And im not even sure if ive seen a support hero stacking other neutrals for the teams carry in either of these games, it just doesnt happen. So 10 times harder to have decent farm in lower brackets than in higher brackets where ppl know wtf stacking is.
I can only laugh at u when it comes to commenting on my games, have u seriously watched the PL game? Heavy activity going on, so we decided to just push and end the game. I didnt need anymore farm at all, diffusal blade and it was gg. When i had diffusal blade i was sitting at 5,5k gold at some point and i wasnt thinking, AMGGGGGG i need manta soooooooo bad to win this, AMGGGGGGGG i need hot to win this game, i didnt need any single farm at all to win this game, so why in the heck would i be farming? I bet you're the guy when we are pushing bot racks u would tele top to safely free farm so that it looks good on your stats instead of just ending the game. "I only have 70 last hits, i need 120 or my friends will bully me" You are so addicted to stats i can only laugh at you, even your name "you_got_fuckt" tells me everything about what kind of person you are.
But lets farm all game, lets buy 7 divine rapiers, like a fucking retard and lose the game:
I watched your game. Your opponents were bad, and you were worse. You were against SD + CW, and didn't skill dopplewalk. You died on level 3 and you didn't have a single point in dopple walk. Thats not very smart. You died because you are bad.
Your opponents weren't good either, well CW maybe, I didn't see the full game, but Shadow Demon auto attacked creeps and pushed the wave so you could last hit under the tower. And they weren't even harassing much either, the only times they would attack you is if they were going for the kill, otherwise CW was focusing on last hitting creeps, and SD was auto attacking creeps, even if you were right next to the wave.
And you didn't even buy tranquil boots, despite having the money for it. You had like 700 gold and an empty lane when tiny came over and killed SD and sent CW back to base, you could have gone to the shop and picked up Boots, but no, you decide to not buy anything, retreat to your tower as the enemies come back, and then have your courier send over boots....talk about efficient.
And then instead of buying tranquil boots, because you were sitting at half HP most of the time from the kill attempts, you buy a blade of alacrity...
Not that it matters anyway, their mid TA auto attacks creeps and there were no wards up, and this is including TA's traps. And when Tiny slowly walks up to TA, instead of using refraction, she waits until Tiny drops his combo, so that she can walk away with 15 HP instead of full HP.
Nice.
Its not my stats that matter here, if anything my stats show that I am a decent player. Your stats show that you are terrible at the game, that's all there is to it. And from what I saw in your game, you do indeed, suck.
I didn't skill doppelwalk because i was unaware of how they would play. Because i should build differently depending on whether they are harassing all the time, farming all the time, or trying to nuke me every now and then. In some occasions, i would have gotten away with not levelling doppelwalk, but when i realised they tried to nuke me which worked out pretty well by using disruption + centaur stomp combo i decided to collect me up a level of doppelwalk which saved me from the rest of the game whenver they tried to make us of the disruption + stomp combo.
Tell me, why would i need tranquil boots? At what point in the game was it costly that i did not have tranquil boots? If they had harassed me more, which they didnt, i would have collected myself a pair, but they didnt and therefore i didnt need hp. Anyways, thnx for commenting.
You didn't skill dopplewalk because you were unaware of how they would play? That's got to be the worst excuse I have heard in a long time. The only time you would not pick up dopplewalk is when you have a defensive tri-lane against a solo offlane hero, and even in these situations its still not a bad idea to put 1 point in it at level 2. Juxtapose does fucking nothing early on, to not skill dopplewalk when you are up against a SD + CW is beyond stupid. It doesn't matter how much they were harassing or anything, not taking 1 point of dopplewalk is dumb.
Tranquil boots right from early on would mean you could actually go and take a lot more last hits instead of constantly having to stay at your tower when SD + CW were in the lane, it means that if they decide to jump on you, you can take some damage, use dopple, retreat, survive, pop TB and be at near full HP again, instead of walking around with half HP praying that Tiny will come and gank again.
Even with complete free farm people buy TB because it lets you stay at full HP at farming, and lets you jungle very easily (if the lane is pushed or whatever)
There is a reason its bought on almost every single carry, even with the recent nerfs (although you would generally look to break it after the laning/farming stage for heroes like Luna or Gyro into treads/phase/bot or whatever
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That is very mana costly, when infact instead of doing that, i could farm with spirit lance and collect myself a few good last hits from there.
There is not one single point where i felt like i needed tranquil. Not one point. They didnt harass me at all, therefore i didnt lose hp except for when they went for a nuke, and when in the middle of a team fight / nuke the tranquil cannot be used.
If i wanted hp, i would have bought hp, i didnt need it, so therefore i didnt buy it. And i didnt need farm either, therefore i didnt farm, i had plenty of gold, much more than needed to win this game. All i needed was a diffusal and a pair of any random boots and this game was gg. And i hardly even used my diffusal, in fact i think i could have won this game with just a pair of boots.
How is it mana costly? You would rather die? I'm not telling you to not take lance at 1(2),3,5,7, but you need to be taking at least 1 point of dopplewalk at level 1 or 2, and putting more points into at 4 and then maxing it after spirit lance wouldn't be a bad idea when you are facing a 2v1 lane, the lower CD and mana cost do come in handy. Even in complete free farm situations you would probably take at least 1 point of dopplewalk by level 2.
You use tranquil boots after they try and kill you, and while you are last hitting under the tower, or waiting for the wave, you use TB and go back to full HP. As opposed to then returning to farming on half HP, and making you an easy target.
And yeah, you are mostly right. But lets imagine for just one second, that SD wasn't a retard, and that it wasn't TA's first game (which it looks like it was) or perhaps TA and Tiny were on the opposite team? Then what? You would get rolled so badly its not even funny. You are a complete non-factor in almost all your games, and to have played this game for so long, to be a non-factor in the normal bracket, its quite sad.
You say you know a lot about the game, but you don't, you play in the lowest bracket. you are a non-factor in most of your games, you make bad decisions in your games, you don't understand the justification of core items that every good player is picking up in the vast majority of their games, and you come here and talk as though you do.
How can u honestly say im a non factor, lol. You have no clue what you are talking about, youre just saying random crap, and u havent even watched my games. Im in 90% of the games the make or break for my team. If u dont know what mana costly means, it means that it costs a lot of mana, you get it now?
What does it matter that i play in the lowest bracket? I have played high bracket games with d3vilishdota, and holy shit the skill level is low :D in fact i would say its 10x harder to win games in lower bracket because u get matched with complete donks, in high bracket u atleast get matched with people that understand the mechanics of this game. If i wanted to play in higher brackets it wouldnt be no problem.
Ok then, you are a non-factor whenever you play carry. You cannot carry for shit. Happy?
I questioned your view of it as mana costly, because you decided that hey, I would rather not skill this ability which I will have the mana to use unless I play like a retard that will let me survive a kill attempt on me. Because the mana cost > surviving.
You play in the normal bracket.
Its also very cute how you say that normal bracket games are tough to win (don't get me wrong, occasionally you do get unwinnable games because your mid hero has gone 0-329482349 in the first 10 minutes, but the vast majority really are, very easy wins). If you were good you would be playing in a higher bracket, irrespective of your win/loss. The MMR in this game, at least from my understanding is not simply based on wins/losses, or even just weighted w/l, it seems to take into account other things too. If you were playing at a decent level, you wouldn't be in the normal bracket. Get over it, you aren't good at the game.
And that's not me saying that I am good/pro or anything of that nature (I consider myself decent at the game, having played in many mid-high level IH and scrim leagues in dota1), this is me telling you, that you are bad.
MMR is based on many things, but in the normal bracket that i get in, i may be laning with a support. When you lane with a support you expect him to babysit u, to stack creeps, to stack ancients, when i get a support i get an auto-attacking creep stealer which will take my farm. That is the major difference, and which will then reduce my stats. It's much easier to get good stats that u are talking about all the time like lhs if u are playing with decent people or queue up with friends.
The last link you posted, is that a link for yourself or?
You are the one here with terrible stats, playing in the lowest bracket, and trying to put yourself above other people who are playing in higher brackets and have much better stats. Do you think that link is for you or me?
And because I am better at dota than you, I am a stat hunter? Ok. And I wasn't even taking support games into account, but hey, I can play decent support too, its just that I play a significantly better carry, which comes from playing #1-2 positions in IH/scrims for ~3 years.
2. Right, dota 1 doesn't exist. The only thing you have going for you is that you have played more games. When that is probably one of the worst measures of skill, especially for a game that is just a remake of dota on a better engine.
3. see #1
So lets see, better stats, playing higher level games, and you think you are better. Ok.
Are you honestly thinking that your stats is good, and better than mine? U have played 80 games :D
Stop trolling, kid.
Its easy to have good/high stats when u have played that few games, also im not a stat hunter, which means when the game is lost many are just playing around, like waiting outside fountain to get some extra "fun" kills, i bet ure the guy that when u know u have lost u go to jungle to farm to increase ur stats, while i just wait in spawn the last 10 mins waiting for them to end, and that is basically about the 50% of the games that i lose where i sit the last 10 mins if i know its gg so i dont extend the game further by trying to defend a lane.
My KDA ratio is 21 with Treant, does this make me the best Treant player in the world, then? It should, atleast if we are using your logic.
You have played 1 game with treant and that was fountain camping.
You also played 43 games with AM and have 37% win rate, 350GPM and 1.96 KDA
Again, the only "stat" that you win in is games played, which isn't an accurate measure of skill at all. I'm not basing everything on your win rate, look at your damn GPM. Go see any good player's account and see their stats. You don't come close.
GPM is useless when taking into consideration that in all the lost games i would just wait at fountain for the game to end, so there goes lots of gold and xp down the drain where u could easily farm jungle or defend a lane for easy gold and xp.
I like how you look at ONE carry and then base everything off that ONE carry to tell if im a good player or not
Cant farm? We are fucking trying to end the game, not trying to farm all game to make this a 1 hour game. In these games we had the capability of ending, therefore im not trying to farm to improve the stats, we are just trying to end, and like i said earlier; if i wanted to farm - i would farm. I dont need it. Dont be stupid, but maybe all this stathunting you are on made you this stupid. Just the fact you even brought the topic about stats up shows how stat hungry you are.
So what makes you think you are better than me. There has to be something in that head of yours that's going hey, this guy is playing in much higher level games, has a better win rate, has better GPM, has better XPM, has higher KDA, but I am still the better player because _____________________
Fill in the blank, I'm curious
I saw your one game, you played bad, you gave up FB because you made a stupid choice, you made bad item choices, and were against bad opponents. There really isn't anything more to say that isn't repeating what I have said multiple times already, you are fucking shit, get over it.
Where did i state that im a better player than you? I dont know if i am, or not. You're looking solely at stats which is pathetic, stats does not tell everything. If you support your team well etc u can be 3-15 and still be the best player in the world, this well make ur KDA, XPM, GPM etc look like shit, but you can still be playing like a fucking god.
If all people were a little stathungry kid like you with the name "You_Got_Fukt" (lol) the Dota2 community would be completely ruined. I am the guy that sacrifices my vengeful spirit by swapping with my teams carry, this will give me a death, this will make my KDA, my GPM, my XPM look like fucking trash, but this does not make me a bad player.
Keep talking about your stats, idgaf about them, and no1 should.
And where did I talk about your stats with Vengeful spirit? Of course your KDA isn't going to be exceptional with her, nor your GPM/XPM, but I am not talking about that at all.
I am talking about the fact that every safelane/jungle carry/semi-carry I have played I have over 400GPM with (16 heroes out of 34 heroes played), while you have 10 heroes (90+ heroes played) with over 400GPM.
My AM averages 320 more GPM than yours, is that relevant?
You call it stat hungry, I call it playing the game. You sound like those 12 year olds who go 1-30 on COD and call others tryhards when they drop a MOAB on your ass
now after reading some posts, i think u r slightly out of topic guys, stick to topic, or just open another thread and argue about who got higher number of heroes with 400+ GPM :D
If PL is so OP why doesn't he has 100% winrate in tournaments? Or at least 75%?
http://dota-academy.com/hero/71/ >about 55% winrate
So yes, a strong hero, but nowhere close to op.
55% winrate for a hero is VERY high. VERY very high.
Since all heroes are picked so many times and there always has to be a losing team a winrate should be about 50% so a hero with 55% is most often a good hero in one way or other. PL is imba, it doesnt mean u cant win games. Its not like u can click PL and then its gg, u have a job to do as well.
^no its not, once again you are way off the mark, although by now this doesn't surprise me.
Win rates mean very little when there isn't a lot of data for the hero, so for PL to have 55% in 56 games is nothing significant. You realise that KOTL has 61% with 190 games, and also the 4th and 5th for #1 and #2 ban.
Naix, 58%, 195 games
Magnus 58%, 185 games
Rubick 57%, 185 games
Gyro, 62%, 163 games
Nature's Prophet, 66%, 134 games
Nyx 57%
Luna 57%
Batrider 60% (although 2nd and 1st for #1/2 ban)
Wisp 66%
Puck 64%
Chen 62%
CK 61%
Undying 59%
Clock 57%
BH 60%
all picked more than PL
Its only when heroes are the #1-2 pick/ban that you might even begin to evaluate whether a hero is a little too good, or just fitting the metagame.
And if you wanted to take into account G1-league stats, which this website doesn't (at least I don't think it does), Lone Druid has only lost like 1-2 games (although one of them did involve a solo mid juggernaut starting with bottle just feed at mid, and no other pushing heroes in the lineup). I don't think anyone has come close to beating LD when he has a Leshrac or other decent heroes for pushing on the team.
But I am sure you know all this because you say that you watch more competitive games than me.
Well at that point wisp and gyro are op with more than 60% winrate. Lancer average winrate(including that spike with 55%) is actually 49%. He havent been nerfed much, so that just indicated that strategies are more build around using him right now than they were before. So no, not imba, not op.
I'm talking about general winrate, not in tournaments. People in tournaments are much better at dealing with a pl, in public games ppl are more playing their own game which means there is plenty of opportunities for a pl to have free farm at some point, so you must atleast tell your team to be aware of him. I also believe that the avg. game time for a public game is higher than the avg. game time for a tournament game which gives a PL better working conditions in a public game where i think games are closer to about 40 minute than they are to 30 minute games.
The Terrible, where did i state that winrate is an indication of whether a hero is imba or not? I didnt. I just said that the 54% winrate is certainly not telling us that we are dealing with a bad hero here. Meepos winrate is only 40% and he is still an amazing hero if u know how to micro (i dont lol, but some people can do it very well)
And your most played heroes you have drow, riki, sniper and huskar, how fucking shit are you?
"And no he can't engage teamfights 20-25 minutes without an illusion army of at least 5-6 illusions already up" Dobbelwalk + Spirit lance + eventually manta = 4 illusions + your hero and it takes like 2-3 hits before 5-10 more will be up. Its not rocket science, its easy to get the illusions going, its not like they will instantly destroy them when ure initiating in, its not like ure meant to sent one at a time, but pop them all at once and they dont know what to do. I love how u bring ME into the debate when it comes to whether PL is imba or not, how mature is that? Are u fucking 12 year olds, since that is ur way of arguing? Ad ad hominem my friend, stay away from it if u cant handle a debate.
When i get home from work i enjoy playing a couple games while enjoying a beer or a cup of coffee, im just having fun and having a good time, not being a stat whoring kid trying to act like smurf just like you do.
If i wanted to get +50% winrate, it would be no problem. But idgaf because that is not what matters. What matters is having fun, and thats what the game is about, atleast for me at this point. And yeah, i have many drow games when i first started out because i didnt know the game and i wanted to play a hero that was easy and a hero i felt comfortable with, so while sorting the game out my first many games where with traxex just so i got to learn how to farm etc (when going from Dota to Dota2) i never play Drow now unless its SD or AR, otherwise never.
Try harder, ethug. You're new to this game with your 80 games, eventually u will learn the mechanics of this game at some later point where u have more experience.
Ah of course, everyone with better stats than you is a smurf. 10 years of Dota experience and still main noob friendly heroes and suck at the game.
Better stats? K, u can quit the trolling now, its good.
U have played 80 games lmfao, my friend started dota 2 weeks ago and he has 90 games with a winrate of 65%, nothing to be proud of. Welcome to the game.
You fed in 14 of your last 20 games. Please teach us doto
You're new to the game, so its OK that u do not know what feeding is. Please tell me the 14 games that i fed in? - Link the 14 games.
I bet that this is one of them: http://dotabuff.com/matches/159192254
Now tell me how im the feeder?
96cs with an AM battlefury, you may as well have fed
What's the point in bfury if you don't farm mr 350gpm
edit: 1000 games, and you still play in the normal bracket. go back to tic tac toe
Have you watched the game? If not, plz do so, and tell me whether i fed or not, tell me whether or not i tried to farm, thank you.
Are you still gonna comment on me being in the normal bracket? Lol. I told u i just play for fun while i enjoy a cup of coffee when i get tired home after work, not to be some king of this game like you think you are. If i really wanted to get into the high bracket i dont think it would be too much of a problem. :) I like how you constantly turn the subject around me instead of what the topic is rlly about, typical example of a troll.
I don't need to know what you did in that game, because you have a 37% win rate, 1.9KDA and 350 GPM with AM, so I am not about to hesitate to call you shit with him. Obviously its different with just a handful of games where a couple bad games can warp your stats, but shit, you have played 43 games with him. One can only conclude that you are exceptionally bad at the hero. Most of your 40 minute games (with battlefury) and you don't even have close to 200CS, and then there is even a 50 minute game where you only have 199CS, again with battlefury. lol. And its not like you are playing opponents that make it difficult either, you are playing in the normal bracket for fuck sake.
And its not like you don't have the scores: 4-14, 1-9, 2-9, 3-13 in the 4 games after...
Even "casual" players who have played for an extended period of time are better than that, and here you are, not only being crap at the game, but also trying to pretend you know anything about balance or the competitive scene. You keep saying 10 years, but you don't show any of that in your play nor your knowledge of the game.
And none of your arguments hold true in a real game, and I think anyone with a decent amount of experience is just laughing at the kind of views you are giving here.
Lance 1 unit, that illusion dies almost instantly, if we are assuming 20-25 minutes into the game, which is the kind of time heroes like LD will be pushing for rax. Juxtapose, dies instantly. Manta illusions, they go down quick too. Unless idk, you have manta + HoT + Diffusal + Butterfly that quick into the game? Or you decide to give free farm to PL without going super aggressive on the other lanes of having your Gyro/Sven free farm?
http://dotabuff.com/matches/140937120
Radiant side very far ahead, but Gyro goes straight for BKB + Rapier, and there is absolutely nothing PL can do.
Try playing a brewmaster in an offensive trilane or mid, rush AB + Dagger and get a gem. See what PL is able to do in that game.
Try playing an offensive lineup with LD + Leshrac or whoever, drop towers. Take the rax while PL still can't do anything.
Try playing Puck mid, see what PL can do.
PL is a decent hero at the moment, but is no where near OP, and definitely doesn't deserve a nerf. I'd much have a LD on my team.
You have only played 80 games of dota, and u think u know everything about dota because of 80 games? I have 2k+ games (when we count in different accounts) so i think when it comes to dota2 experience i am much ahead of you. 57% is actually embarassing when taking into consideration that you have premade matches and that you are facing fucking retards when u have played 0 games so therefore the first 10 games is easy if u know a little bit about the game. All these smurfs can easily get 85% winrate for the first 50 games and then it will drop till about 75 during the next 100 games, so your winrate is completely embarassing, and therefore a kid with 80 games shouldnt try and teach me about Dota. But lets look at one of your games then - 134392164 - im not even gonna comment on ur shitty ass build. You are the fucking only carry on your team, and look what u are building? You are supposed to carry if u know wtf that is.
Dude, ur not supposed to pop spirit lance once then stand back, you are supposed to use everything at once; dobbelwalk - manta - spirit lance, boom 5 illusions which will crack into 15 illusions in a matter of 1-2 seconds.
And, your second of example where u talk about an offensive trilane with a leshrac pick etc is games where u wanna try and end the game fast, which is exactly the point if u are going up against a PL. Because that is your chance to win. You are acting like i stated that PL wins 100% of the games? PL is op, but u can still win games - ofcourse you can, you will just have a much rouger time winning if the game is extended by any means than if you are going up against a void and u have a hard carry your self. And its not just easy to push towers, because if a team somehow manages to pick up both kotl and pl, it will not be easy to end the game fast because the kotl blast will keep them back for a good while which gives pl access to farm, or either free farm in one of the other lanes.
Right, because dota 1 didn't exist? Mate you have a <50% win rate and still play in the fucking normal bracket after 2000 games, you say? 2000 games mate. I've played 80 and I play in the VH bracket. My last game my opponents had 350-1100 games, 52%+WR (57% for people with lower games). And its funny, because the people you play against are worse, you play in the normal bracket, do you even know what that means? There is a reason the enemies you play all have <50%, its because they are fucking bad, just like you. Honestly, you guys are part of a special group that makes no sense, how one can play this game and be so bad, its truly something to be proud of.
Most of my games are actually solo queue, see that 8 game winning streak? Only one of those games was queued with other people.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/134392164
Still learning how to play dota are you? I was actually trying to push constantly in this match, and WD/WR are far better carries, so I focused on tanking the hits where possible to protect them both. Not that you would know much about any of that. I guess you have no idea how much damage a WD with Aghs + BKB does, or how effective WR can be with late game with her 1.5 BAT and natural tankiness from STR + long evasion time and good range. Its too bad neither of these 2 guys knew how to fight at all and both would only enter the fight after undying and myself had died - even though they were standing right behind us.
But are you really trying to teach me how to carry? Mate you have 1 hero with over 500GPM, not going to include your treant protector game as its a result of just fountain farming. How shit are you? You have played 43 games with AM, have a 37% win rate, and a piss poor 358 GPM.
I've had a look at your games, and its a fucking joke, do you auto attack creeps or something? In none of the games I saw - even the wins, did you even manage 4CS/Min, which is just plain embarrassing.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/162131269 Nice 74 CS in a 30 minute game with PL, you truly are a professional carry, please teach me doto
http://dotabuff.com/matches/159230185 136 CS in a 41 minute game with Sven? You even maxed cleave after stun, so one would think you might actually farm. I guess not.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/158768244 - The AM game you won (by that I mean you did fucking nothing and got carried by Furion). And oh look, 41 minute game, you have battlefury, and still a shitbad 138CS.
You aren't even half decent at the game, seriously take a good look at just how bad you are:
http://dotabuff.com/players/113257354/heroes?metric=economy&date=&game_mode=&match_type=real
And so you "pop" every image creating thing you have, lance will be the only one landing any hits as it actually spawns next to the unit you use it on, your manta illusions and juxtapose are most likely going to die against any cleave/AoE, these 3 illusions are gone. And then that's it for a period, if those illusions are dead, you can't do squat.
And no, PL isn't that scary, its not that he is unbeatable late game or something, sure he is strong here. Its because he is actually WEAK to early pushes. There is a difference between being scared of late game potential and abusing his weakness early game. People aren't pushing and raxing 20 minutes in because PL is too strong late game, they are doing it because he is so weak at this point in the game to pushes.
Yeah, the players i play against are worse, BUT SO ARE THE TEAMMATES, i solo queue all the time and in rare instanses i queue up with some of my rlly bad friends to teach them Dota and have a good time with them - which is certainly not something that benefits my WR at all. Heck, i even get paired with players that pick nyx and pops stun before hitting out of invisibility, Dark seer without ultimate, an omniknight jungling all game, trust me - ive seen it all. Also in my 2k games - NONE of the roaming support heroes have stacked ancients, NONE. And im not even sure if ive seen a support hero stacking other neutrals for the teams carry in either of these games, it just doesnt happen. So 10 times harder to have decent farm in lower brackets than in higher brackets where ppl know wtf stacking is.
I can only laugh at u when it comes to commenting on my games, have u seriously watched the PL game? Heavy activity going on, so we decided to just push and end the game. I didnt need anymore farm at all, diffusal blade and it was gg. When i had diffusal blade i was sitting at 5,5k gold at some point and i wasnt thinking, AMGGGGGG i need manta soooooooo bad to win this, AMGGGGGGGG i need hot to win this game, i didnt need any single farm at all to win this game, so why in the heck would i be farming? I bet you're the guy when we are pushing bot racks u would tele top to safely free farm so that it looks good on your stats instead of just ending the game. "I only have 70 last hits, i need 120 or my friends will bully me" You are so addicted to stats i can only laugh at you, even your name "you_got_fuckt" tells me everything about what kind of person you are.
But lets farm all game, lets buy 7 divine rapiers, like a fucking retard and lose the game:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/90999842
I watched your game. Your opponents were bad, and you were worse. You were against SD + CW, and didn't skill dopplewalk. You died on level 3 and you didn't have a single point in dopple walk. Thats not very smart. You died because you are bad.
Your opponents weren't good either, well CW maybe, I didn't see the full game, but Shadow Demon auto attacked creeps and pushed the wave so you could last hit under the tower. And they weren't even harassing much either, the only times they would attack you is if they were going for the kill, otherwise CW was focusing on last hitting creeps, and SD was auto attacking creeps, even if you were right next to the wave.
And you didn't even buy tranquil boots, despite having the money for it. You had like 700 gold and an empty lane when tiny came over and killed SD and sent CW back to base, you could have gone to the shop and picked up Boots, but no, you decide to not buy anything, retreat to your tower as the enemies come back, and then have your courier send over boots....talk about efficient.
And then instead of buying tranquil boots, because you were sitting at half HP most of the time from the kill attempts, you buy a blade of alacrity...
Not that it matters anyway, their mid TA auto attacks creeps and there were no wards up, and this is including TA's traps. And when Tiny slowly walks up to TA, instead of using refraction, she waits until Tiny drops his combo, so that she can walk away with 15 HP instead of full HP.
Nice.
Its not my stats that matter here, if anything my stats show that I am a decent player. Your stats show that you are terrible at the game, that's all there is to it. And from what I saw in your game, you do indeed, suck.
I didn't skill doppelwalk because i was unaware of how they would play. Because i should build differently depending on whether they are harassing all the time, farming all the time, or trying to nuke me every now and then. In some occasions, i would have gotten away with not levelling doppelwalk, but when i realised they tried to nuke me which worked out pretty well by using disruption + centaur stomp combo i decided to collect me up a level of doppelwalk which saved me from the rest of the game whenver they tried to make us of the disruption + stomp combo.
Tell me, why would i need tranquil boots? At what point in the game was it costly that i did not have tranquil boots? If they had harassed me more, which they didnt, i would have collected myself a pair, but they didnt and therefore i didnt need hp. Anyways, thnx for commenting.
You didn't skill dopplewalk because you were unaware of how they would play? That's got to be the worst excuse I have heard in a long time. The only time you would not pick up dopplewalk is when you have a defensive tri-lane against a solo offlane hero, and even in these situations its still not a bad idea to put 1 point in it at level 2. Juxtapose does fucking nothing early on, to not skill dopplewalk when you are up against a SD + CW is beyond stupid. It doesn't matter how much they were harassing or anything, not taking 1 point of dopplewalk is dumb.
Tranquil boots right from early on would mean you could actually go and take a lot more last hits instead of constantly having to stay at your tower when SD + CW were in the lane, it means that if they decide to jump on you, you can take some damage, use dopple, retreat, survive, pop TB and be at near full HP again, instead of walking around with half HP praying that Tiny will come and gank again.
Even with complete free farm people buy TB because it lets you stay at full HP at farming, and lets you jungle very easily (if the lane is pushed or whatever)
There is a reason its bought on almost every single carry, even with the recent nerfs (although you would generally look to break it after the laning/farming stage for heroes like Luna or Gyro into treads/phase/bot or whatever
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That is very mana costly, when infact instead of doing that, i could farm with spirit lance and collect myself a few good last hits from there.
There is not one single point where i felt like i needed tranquil. Not one point. They didnt harass me at all, therefore i didnt lose hp except for when they went for a nuke, and when in the middle of a team fight / nuke the tranquil cannot be used.
If i wanted hp, i would have bought hp, i didnt need it, so therefore i didnt buy it. And i didnt need farm either, therefore i didnt farm, i had plenty of gold, much more than needed to win this game. All i needed was a diffusal and a pair of any random boots and this game was gg. And i hardly even used my diffusal, in fact i think i could have won this game with just a pair of boots.
How is it mana costly? You would rather die? I'm not telling you to not take lance at 1(2),3,5,7, but you need to be taking at least 1 point of dopplewalk at level 1 or 2, and putting more points into at 4 and then maxing it after spirit lance wouldn't be a bad idea when you are facing a 2v1 lane, the lower CD and mana cost do come in handy. Even in complete free farm situations you would probably take at least 1 point of dopplewalk by level 2.
You use tranquil boots after they try and kill you, and while you are last hitting under the tower, or waiting for the wave, you use TB and go back to full HP. As opposed to then returning to farming on half HP, and making you an easy target.
And yeah, you are mostly right. But lets imagine for just one second, that SD wasn't a retard, and that it wasn't TA's first game (which it looks like it was) or perhaps TA and Tiny were on the opposite team? Then what? You would get rolled so badly its not even funny. You are a complete non-factor in almost all your games, and to have played this game for so long, to be a non-factor in the normal bracket, its quite sad.
You say you know a lot about the game, but you don't, you play in the lowest bracket. you are a non-factor in most of your games, you make bad decisions in your games, you don't understand the justification of core items that every good player is picking up in the vast majority of their games, and you come here and talk as though you do.
How can u honestly say im a non factor, lol. You have no clue what you are talking about, youre just saying random crap, and u havent even watched my games. Im in 90% of the games the make or break for my team. If u dont know what mana costly means, it means that it costs a lot of mana, you get it now?
What does it matter that i play in the lowest bracket? I have played high bracket games with d3vilishdota, and holy shit the skill level is low :D in fact i would say its 10x harder to win games in lower bracket because u get matched with complete donks, in high bracket u atleast get matched with people that understand the mechanics of this game. If i wanted to play in higher brackets it wouldnt be no problem.
Ok then, you are a non-factor whenever you play carry. You cannot carry for shit. Happy?
I questioned your view of it as mana costly, because you decided that hey, I would rather not skill this ability which I will have the mana to use unless I play like a retard that will let me survive a kill attempt on me. Because the mana cost > surviving.
You play in the normal bracket.
Its also very cute how you say that normal bracket games are tough to win (don't get me wrong, occasionally you do get unwinnable games because your mid hero has gone 0-329482349 in the first 10 minutes, but the vast majority really are, very easy wins). If you were good you would be playing in a higher bracket, irrespective of your win/loss. The MMR in this game, at least from my understanding is not simply based on wins/losses, or even just weighted w/l, it seems to take into account other things too. If you were playing at a decent level, you wouldn't be in the normal bracket. Get over it, you aren't good at the game.
And that's not me saying that I am good/pro or anything of that nature (I consider myself decent at the game, having played in many mid-high level IH and scrim leagues in dota1), this is me telling you, that you are bad.
Take a good read of this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
I can't carry ok, now i heard that too.
MMR is based on many things, but in the normal bracket that i get in, i may be laning with a support. When you lane with a support you expect him to babysit u, to stack creeps, to stack ancients, when i get a support i get an auto-attacking creep stealer which will take my farm. That is the major difference, and which will then reduce my stats. It's much easier to get good stats that u are talking about all the time like lhs if u are playing with decent people or queue up with friends.
The last link you posted, is that a link for yourself or?
You are the one here with terrible stats, playing in the lowest bracket, and trying to put yourself above other people who are playing in higher brackets and have much better stats. Do you think that link is for you or me?
1. Terrible stats - because im not a stathunter, if i was i wouldnt be helping my team out, i wouldnt be playing support heroes etc.
2. You have played 80 games xD
3. Your stats are shit.
Do you really think a guy with 85 games should teach some1 with 30 times as many games about dota? xD
And because I am better at dota than you, I am a stat hunter? Ok. And I wasn't even taking support games into account, but hey, I can play decent support too, its just that I play a significantly better carry, which comes from playing #1-2 positions in IH/scrims for ~3 years.
1. Some support games, also some with SD/Leshrac but I ceebs linking more, you can find them yourself
http://dotabuff.com/matches/135316484
And no I took no farm during the laning stage, maybe a last hit or two to get boots, but that's it.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/135250411
Against a dagon4 nyx and a doom, was not very fun
http://dotabuff.com/matches/138037880
http://dotabuff.com/players/86777423/matches?hero=keeper-of-the-light&game_mode=&match_type=real
Better stats than you.
http://dotabuff.com/players/86777423/heroes?metric=economy&date=&game_mode=&match_type=real
http://dotabuff.com/players/113257354/heroes?metric=economy&date=&game_mode=&match_type=real
Play a bit of, spot the difference
2. Right, dota 1 doesn't exist. The only thing you have going for you is that you have played more games. When that is probably one of the worst measures of skill, especially for a game that is just a remake of dota on a better engine.
3. see #1
So lets see, better stats, playing higher level games, and you think you are better. Ok.
Are you honestly thinking that your stats is good, and better than mine? U have played 80 games :D
Stop trolling, kid.
Its easy to have good/high stats when u have played that few games, also im not a stat hunter, which means when the game is lost many are just playing around, like waiting outside fountain to get some extra "fun" kills, i bet ure the guy that when u know u have lost u go to jungle to farm to increase ur stats, while i just wait in spawn the last 10 mins waiting for them to end, and that is basically about the 50% of the games that i lose where i sit the last 10 mins if i know its gg so i dont extend the game further by trying to defend a lane.
My KDA ratio is 21 with Treant, does this make me the best Treant player in the world, then? It should, atleast if we are using your logic.
You have played 1 game with treant and that was fountain camping.
You also played 43 games with AM and have 37% win rate, 350GPM and 1.96 KDA
Again, the only "stat" that you win in is games played, which isn't an accurate measure of skill at all. I'm not basing everything on your win rate, look at your damn GPM. Go see any good player's account and see their stats. You don't come close.
GPM is useless when taking into consideration that in all the lost games i would just wait at fountain for the game to end, so there goes lots of gold and xp down the drain where u could easily farm jungle or defend a lane for easy gold and xp.
I like how you look at ONE carry and then base everything off that ONE carry to tell if im a good player or not
GPM is useless? Sure it is, that's exactly the kind of thing that a player of your caliber would say.
Lets take a look at your wins anyway:
http://dotabuff.com/matches/158768244 138CS 41 minute game
http://dotabuff.com/matches/151310446 195 CS 39 minute game
http://dotabuff.com/matches/137705152 199 CS 50 minute game
So you aren't just dragged down by your losses, even in games you win you can't farm at all.
Cant farm? We are fucking trying to end the game, not trying to farm all game to make this a 1 hour game. In these games we had the capability of ending, therefore im not trying to farm to improve the stats, we are just trying to end, and like i said earlier; if i wanted to farm - i would farm. I dont need it. Dont be stupid, but maybe all this stathunting you are on made you this stupid. Just the fact you even brought the topic about stats up shows how stat hungry you are.
So what makes you think you are better than me. There has to be something in that head of yours that's going hey, this guy is playing in much higher level games, has a better win rate, has better GPM, has better XPM, has higher KDA, but I am still the better player because _____________________
Fill in the blank, I'm curious
I saw your one game, you played bad, you gave up FB because you made a stupid choice, you made bad item choices, and were against bad opponents. There really isn't anything more to say that isn't repeating what I have said multiple times already, you are fucking shit, get over it.
Where did i state that im a better player than you? I dont know if i am, or not. You're looking solely at stats which is pathetic, stats does not tell everything. If you support your team well etc u can be 3-15 and still be the best player in the world, this well make ur KDA, XPM, GPM etc look like shit, but you can still be playing like a fucking god.
If all people were a little stathungry kid like you with the name "You_Got_Fukt" (lol) the Dota2 community would be completely ruined. I am the guy that sacrifices my vengeful spirit by swapping with my teams carry, this will give me a death, this will make my KDA, my GPM, my XPM look like fucking trash, but this does not make me a bad player.
Keep talking about your stats, idgaf about them, and no1 should.
And where did I talk about your stats with Vengeful spirit? Of course your KDA isn't going to be exceptional with her, nor your GPM/XPM, but I am not talking about that at all.
I am talking about the fact that every safelane/jungle carry/semi-carry I have played I have over 400GPM with (16 heroes out of 34 heroes played), while you have 10 heroes (90+ heroes played) with over 400GPM.
My AM averages 320 more GPM than yours, is that relevant?
You call it stat hungry, I call it playing the game. You sound like those 12 year olds who go 1-30 on COD and call others tryhards when they drop a MOAB on your ass
I dont play COD, but thanks for asking.
Are you seriously gonna use ur 3 game anti mage as an example? plzz....
I can easily get ur GPM @ 3 games with AM, lemme create a new account and lets give it a shot. How much do u want to bet that i get higher GPM?
now after reading some posts, i think u r slightly out of topic guys, stick to topic, or just open another thread and argue about who got higher number of heroes with 400+ GPM :D
LOL Toeffelhelten be quiet, you're just another brick in the wall.
Really, watch some good players games and learn from it. It might help.
the only way to counter pl is to gank him early game, even if u dont have his counters.
shut him down early and have fun owning later on. :D
@Melanie Iglesias™, a picture like that would totally counter him, or distract him :D
Or even better: don't counter him, let him free farm while you push all towers and barracks on other lanes. You have 25-30 min to win the game 5v4.
If PL is so OP why doesn't he has 100% winrate in tournaments? Or at least 75%?
http://dota-academy.com/hero/71/
>about 55% winrate
So yes, a strong hero, but nowhere close to op.
55% winrate for a hero is VERY high. VERY very high.
Since all heroes are picked so many times and there always has to be a losing team a winrate should be about 50% so a hero with 55% is most often a good hero in one way or other. PL is imba, it doesnt mean u cant win games. Its not like u can click PL and then its gg, u have a job to do as well.
^no its not, once again you are way off the mark, although by now this doesn't surprise me.
Win rates mean very little when there isn't a lot of data for the hero, so for PL to have 55% in 56 games is nothing significant. You realise that KOTL has 61% with 190 games, and also the 4th and 5th for #1 and #2 ban.
Naix, 58%, 195 games
Magnus 58%, 185 games
Rubick 57%, 185 games
Gyro, 62%, 163 games
Nature's Prophet, 66%, 134 games
Nyx 57%
Luna 57%
Batrider 60% (although 2nd and 1st for #1/2 ban)
Wisp 66%
Puck 64%
Chen 62%
CK 61%
Undying 59%
Clock 57%
BH 60%
all picked more than PL
Its only when heroes are the #1-2 pick/ban that you might even begin to evaluate whether a hero is a little too good, or just fitting the metagame.
And if you wanted to take into account G1-league stats, which this website doesn't (at least I don't think it does), Lone Druid has only lost like 1-2 games (although one of them did involve a solo mid juggernaut starting with bottle just feed at mid, and no other pushing heroes in the lineup). I don't think anyone has come close to beating LD when he has a Leshrac or other decent heroes for pushing on the team.
But I am sure you know all this because you say that you watch more competitive games than me.
Well at that point wisp and gyro are op with more than 60% winrate. Lancer average winrate(including that spike with 55%) is actually 49%. He havent been nerfed much, so that just indicated that strategies are more build around using him right now than they were before. So no, not imba, not op.
meh... PL isn't that OP
http://dotabuff.com/matches/163016452
^
win
@You_got_fukt
I'm talking about general winrate, not in tournaments. People in tournaments are much better at dealing with a pl, in public games ppl are more playing their own game which means there is plenty of opportunities for a pl to have free farm at some point, so you must atleast tell your team to be aware of him. I also believe that the avg. game time for a public game is higher than the avg. game time for a tournament game which gives a PL better working conditions in a public game where i think games are closer to about 40 minute than they are to 30 minute games.
@gabsim
a better one
http://dotabuff.com/matches/162353610
@Toeffelhelten
http://dotabuff.com/heroes/winning
he's not even in top 10 winrate. Are the heroes above him even more op then?
The Terrible, where did i state that winrate is an indication of whether a hero is imba or not? I didnt. I just said that the 54% winrate is certainly not telling us that we are dealing with a bad hero here. Meepos winrate is only 40% and he is still an amazing hero if u know how to micro (i dont lol, but some people can do it very well)
Sorry, who was saying he was a bad hero?
Of course he isn't bad, but you are calling him imba, which he isn't.
He is not 54% winrate, he is 49%. 54% is a current spike that might go down.
U want to know what real imba is?
http://dotabuff.com/players/37869211/matches?hero=centaur-warrunner&game_mode=&match_type=real
First 10 games were from when centaur just came out. THATS imba.
You didnt even had to be good- just press a button and ur team gonna stomp.