General DiscussionCurrent patch is disgusting.

You forgot sniper.

i want PUDGE
no wait that probably means i wouldn't be able to pick him every game pls no

i agree it makes games boring, they pick troll so you have to pick PA to counter him so they pick sniper for the range so you have to pick void, it becomes a race for who can pick the most noob heroes, you can usually tell what team is gonna win before the battle begins

ah PA, the legendary troll counter

where did u find jugg bro
his popularity in my games fallen by 80% since the last nerf. same with axe btw.

Oracle = ez troll counter

After TI maybe, i missed rat doto
And Deathball doto, DP was my favorite hero before that cooldown nerf on her ult, and more refresher nerfs

long time no see jugg xD

I see quite often the troll, but as long as you have oracle, wyverne, sniper, es or pl, it's quite easy to play against.

And that's not even mentionning pick that can turtle

i want mgnus, enigma, darkseer, earthshaker, naga, tide, phoenix and things like that as a meta

AND PLEASE NEW PATCH ASAP

Is pa really considered a counter to troll? I always thought that neither one had much advantage over the other. Always just use sniper to counter him but been using pa to counter sniper , I think I may play more pa if this is the case.

Idk, I think troll counters PA more than the reverse cus PA has dodge which is disabled when you are stunned, but troll's axes apply miss chance which is different and not disabled. So once troll gets a bash in he can keep her perma bashed until she dies. PA with a basher can jump on troll and bash him up, but she still needs bkb or mkb to avoid the axes. PA has a very, very slim window when she has an advantage over troll, like right after she gets bkb but before both get mkbs.

If I am correct Troll have not been changed the last 12 months, or more. But I remember drafting him in CM many times and got reported for it during the end of summer 2014.

Troll need MKB vs PA. The MKB is a bad item in general. If Troll dont stun lock PA, she can almost 2-hit him to death if he dont have massive hp.

Blade mail less gold then BKB. PA with BM kill Troll, if she attack while Troll have miss spell on cd.

"dodge which is disabled when you are stunned"

U sure? Since when?

Bring back the necrobook patch

jugg troll sniper storm lina...... yea im tired of seeing these heroes too....

thats why i go lobby often with my friends now, more fun games.

@Lyra

Technically, Troll wasn't changed, but he had a bug which would not make his passive proc correctly fixed. So now he has a ton more Attack Speed for free in the early game.

Ok I was wrong, stun doesn't disable evasion but hex does. Wtf. Ok it's a pretty even matchup. Abyssal PA can probably burst troll down.

And mkb is not bad at all on troll, it's quite amazing actually because it still procs in ranged for and he still has insane attack speed in range. If you have fleeing ranged heroes just go ranged and mini stun them to death. Hard for them to flee while constantly mini stunned. Daedulus is a little bit more dmg, but mkb is still a ton of dmg with those procs. I aim to build one of those every game.

i want to play invoker, and if i go 9 0 and die, not to lose shortly after

Pa counters troll? Fuck no, everytime i see a pa jump on trolls 2 times out of 3 she doesnt crit then he axes then ult rapes her with perma bash. Plus he farms so fast and rosh easy. Pa farms like shit unless she went fast battlefury which i think is bad most of the time. Theres nothing to stop the troll but ghost scepter and kitting.

no one can manfight troll in lategame with equal amount of farm except may be spectre and slark with abyssal+refresher

I think ck with refresher destroys him aswell in 1v1 but this hero will most likely never have as much farm as him.

^ye, I didnt think about that. massive illusions plus mkb can work. same with terror as well, but troll farms way faster than these two,

Pros sometimes go for it, its legit. Whats your problem momma.

How bout you

Big pen here boi

wow this thread got screwed by two spammers fast.

Its ok hes 5k.

top hero pudge. oh the irony

Timberwolf

Crit item is better dps and this increase with more items. Which is good if you want to take down a base alone.

But that minbash stun lock sounds good. never seen it.

Solaire,

With PA, max blink strik and evasion. Get ring of A and a fast maelstorm and a ring of regen or headress. With this you can possible farm faster then the most Trolls with the standard build. And if not faster, prob fast enough. And with this build you can 1v1 most heroes with ez.

Then you get an orchid and blade mail. And attack him when he has no BKB or BKB is on cd.

Bfury is not a good item for farm compared to the alternatives. Test it.

I would only do bfury on sven, kunkka and magnus, and MAYBE Void if im likley to hit several inside the chrono.
I dont play ember.

Btw lyra, troll got HEAVYLY buffed last patch, when they finaly fixed fervor stack being too low.

One more stack, mean you'll also get the next one faster, and so one. earlygame, you have basically one free auto attack.
And late game, that allow you to switch target switfly, even if you are no longer under your ult.

Add to that picks that are slightly more focused on late game, which troll is good at, but countrary to almost all other lategame carry, he is also good earlygame.

And last but not least, add to this, the fact that we left that stupid 5 men unskilled ball, in which the troll couldn't shine at all, cause even for him, it was too early to 5 men.

Find a good counter to troll, jugger, sniper and abuse it. Lina is pretty goddamn strong vs them cause 2 of them usually dont go bkb (to avoid eul and stun) and use mom almost whole game so aghs lina just whipe them out. Or just pick strong offlane and gank them constantly. It's not that hard to win if your team is not retarded, but it's true 1 or 2 bad fights and troll will eat you alive.

Lol does ck using refresher reset his illusions?

ya it resets

@Kitrak
afair i saw CK with refresher as 7th slot couple of times (once in competitive and once in my own games). why do u dislike it that much? double manta and sometimes bkb is certainly worth it if u got enough mana and dont play against some od that shits on ur illusions no matter how many they are.
btw idk how refresher and ck's ult interact tbh
and ofc refresher is not supposed to be part of 6-slots build.

I don't see jugg much anymore. Just Lina, Sniper, Troll. Axe lost popularity too since the nerf.

Uh you can't crit buildings, for bases mkb is going to do more dmg than daedulus cus of the 15 attack speed. Daedulus does more on heroes, but when you factor in the bash proc's it's not that much more. Both are awesome items. I just like being able to interrupt ranged heroes in ranged form. Course with daedulus you crit them down so both are good.