Flavia, I see no flaw in experimenting as such. However I'm not entirely sold on buying battlefury on witch doctor seeing as how he is ranged. I'll admit I have flirted with the idea on undying many times. I'll get it in games where I'm given a lot of space to farm and no one is taking it.
Melt,
It really isn't that hard considering I random almost every game trying to expand my hero pool. Otherwise if I had just played undying I should have possibly been able to get legend/ancient with no issue. That and I hardly consider myself to be playing seriously when I'm constantly interrupted while playing. It doesn't make it better that I'm matched with extremely toxic individuals in Guardian tier who do not know how to win a game and refuse to buy courier for 30 mins. Even rtz would struggle with such crazy teammates constantly whining and without a courier to ferry his big items.
Dawn,
I sense you are being sarcastic. Yes it does make total sense, but explaining it to someone with poor comprehension skills and unoriginal thinking is a waste of my time. I will not be Pigeon-holed into specific ways of playing based on prescriptions by "better players". I'm confident you do not understand the basis for your builds, Nor have you even experimented with the build before. Yet you somehow feel dignified in criticising a build while showboating despite being similarly skilled or worse (than me) at the game
RTZ can't carry a crusader game without a courrier ? LOL
Any dota player with some fucking sense would go ahead and buy the dam courier themselves. you don't have to be the "support" in order to buy that shit ur just a 10 MMR player
Try carrying when your mates are constantly fighting you for courier every min, delaying your item by 10 mins, clumping as 4 on the wrong side of the map sharing zero farm (on an all carry team) while getting wiped despite warnings of an impeding gank, which could have been averted had the "support" listened to my suggestion to put a ward down in th area.
I don't mean to be a know-it-all but I can't be bothered captaining disinterested players. I prefer to hang back and enjoy the beating.
you can play the support role your team is lacking.. Even when playing 5th or 4th Position you can win games by winning ur lanes early game and making sure ur carry gets the farm + Putting those much needed wards u were talking about and buying the courier.
Plus, when the other 4 members of ur team are on the wrong side of the map you Can always TP to the other side and split push if you prefer this play style there are several heroes that fit this criteria and so you can start to carry ur games
you cant support toxic 1k players
they dont know how to use the warding
theres no carry in my team when i support
appearently theres no carry in your team when you carry, too
forever sub 1k, no reason to argue with that dude. his mentality wont let him improve
i know man i know i'm just at work and i'm bored he helps me get through my day thats all
Love u Han <3 and ur 40% Jungling Percentage with RIKI LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Lol I actually don't understand how you can be herald. My buddy played dota for the first time at the beg of the year (without ever playing a moba before) and he got guardian
Lol I actually don't understand how you can be herald. My buddy played dota for the first time at the beg of the year (without ever playing a moba before) and he got guardian
I saw that shit briefly, something about this herald criticizing a pro for getting tombstone on death talent? Didn't even bother reading through it, waste of time lol
some ppl would like to have a herald smurf to stomp games
i honestly cant tell if this guy made one intentionally or if hes actually taking that many drugs
Well as I explained I have no problems playing in 4k mmr, mind you, but I can't be bothered captaining bad players. Valve has decided to pair me with the worse instead of better ones right at the start, so what can I do?
We make do with what we have. My playstyle is to be with the team as that is most enjoyable for me. To be in the thick of action with aggressive heroes like undying. I am not going to solo splitpush although I am Aware that it wins games. It's also worth noting that it is a big sin to solo and die as the most farmed hero in the game. A risky endeavour indeed.
As to why I ended up herald, I did not bother playing optimally when paired with suboptimal players. Hence if you look at my games, I have high amounts of deaths due to me not wanting to communicate to bad players - every little thing they need to do to score kills and prevent me from dying (all entirely avoidable).
I do not change the way I play to suit those players, so I die often and I couldn't be bothered if they are being toxic. I will just keep repeating my tried and trusted patterns garnered from higher skilled games that I have been in. Often it gets me killed although I probably subconsciously hope my teammates get what I'm trying to do with repeated conditioning. Alas, not much is to be expected of Guardian players.
It is a grave insult to people with real mental disabilities when you call someone, who is lesser ranked than you in a video game, "genuinely stupid". I suggests you edit your post else I expect the mods should be banning you soon.
In fact, I would question the intelligence of anyone here who thinks their medal - a highly debatable measure of skill - defines their mental capabilities. As I've already explained countless times in great detail (if you bother to read) the reasons for my rank and why it is not reflective of my skill and knowledge of this game.
I challenge any of you archons who've simply followed Cookie-cutter builds and played the game like you memorized a bunch of formulas, to grow a pair and think for yourself before posting senseless criticism.
the only people including myself who were criticizing you on these forums wasn't because of the simple badge it was because of your mentality of criticizing Professional dota players who get paid tons of money to play this game because they are Ten billion times better than you and yet you refuse to listen to anyone's advice including theres.
and thats how we established that you're an idiot and you still are
Is this really HanSolo the Undying king, or is this another of diox's failed troll smurfs? Him having diox as one of his previous names is throwing me off.
I can't find the original account, the one with 1800+ Undying games with sub 50% WR, he must've changed its name.
And btw HanSolo, don't you dare ever call me out for "cookie-cutter" builds, I play support Sniper, support Razor, no battlefury AM, etc. In my 3K games(Archon 5-Legend 2). Higher calibre of opponents. And I win with them. Whereas your alternative playstyles/build of BATTLEFURY DROW, against HERALDS,gets you 1-19.
Blindly following players just because they play in brand name sponsored teams with tons of resources and Analysts at their disposal, and who only play in highly specialised tournament formats with strategic preparation and counter-picking, does not automatically validate your arguments in any form.
As I recall no one with any real suggestions had any actual experience playing the hero with the aforementioned superior build. Just theories and confidence from blindly relying on the niche playstyle of tournament players.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3604985468 I tried your build on my alt. It doesn't work. Only won because my teammates were competent enough to play around my "stupidity", letting me go in as bait for all enemy spells, then initiating afterwards.
Some "superior" build that is.
ETd, before criticising the build, I suggest you watch the game. Analysis is always better with full information instead of half. The game was challenging to say the least, with multiple cores feeding. Having myself died a few times due to teammates' misplays, I was in a challenging spot. The easiest and most logical progression from my perserverance was to get more damage as we were sorely lacking it. I had considered linkens of course but the stats would not help at that stage in the game. Demon edge was the obvious choice
Well I see you have trouble understanding the efficacy of the build. Having won the game is proof enough that there is utility. Your teammates were obviously able to "play around it" as you put it, because it is not restrictive. The perseverance is an early game item. Going in as bait is how you are suppose to play the hero and has no correlation with the build. In fact the phase boot aghs and blademail, I would argue, is precisely the reason you could play that role which resulted in a win. What would greaves and double tomb have done to do that? It doesn't scAle.
Can anyone else confirm that the boundaries have shifted? I remember right after the update, 3.7 was still VHS. but I suppose after the dust has settled the boundaries have somewhat shifted. That, or matchmaking is just in a really weird spot now.
I am not criticizing the build itself, feel free to theory craft and test what you want
But I think that the one who lacks critical thinking is you, you are stuck in the mindset of "this is the general build, it is built on a competitive environment, it isn't good on the pub environment". Which isn't wrong per se, but that's a tested build which has been adapted and optimized throughout years of meta shift. And has constant steady results
You assume you always get 6 slotted and steamroll the enemies. In the case of undying the Tombstone plays a key part in the his presence, it's not about being able to pull 2 tombstones, it's about forcing the enemies into a decision making where they focus you and have to deal with a second Tombstone while your team is already being initiated, or not focusing you and getting decayed and ulted. Add blademail to the mix and you farther complicate their decision
The reason why you are able to see success in your build is tied to your level of play, how to say that? People at your bracket don't know how to play. So you are usually left unpunished for going your unorthodox builds. I have yesterday lost to a bootsless blinkless Centaur who built double heart and cutted the waves.
We, as a team, were unable to punish him, I am not pointing fingers, I'm sure I had a part in that, but thar doesn't change the fact that as a semi coordinated unit we weren't able to play around him advantageously.
My point is, I'm a full medal above you, and I am also being sometimes outplayed by weird builds. So a full medal behind me would also lack that game sense
Try to think outside of the mindset you got stuck in
I am not stuck, Nor am I interested in hearing why the build is bad, when as you put it, I've already achieved reasonable success with it.
Until you play in my games where the build is optimized, or have tried the build yourself, it is senseless to say it doesn't work. When it does, as multiple people have reported when they in fact tried it.
first of all
1. Nobody actually reported it was successful ( the only person who tried it and to quote him said " I tried the build and i think i lost my brain cells"
2. You haven't achieved any success with it. you played over 6000 games with Undying with a 0.33 KDA and a below 50% winrate and ur stuck at -1 K MMR
3. you need to go see a doctor u need help
Dawn, then with your 40% winrate you haven't achieved any success either so what makes you qualified to judge a build you've never tried? And at the current rate you would end up in herald and I'd like to see you have success with the "standard" build in herald games. Otherwise you are all talk.
Flavia, I see no flaw in experimenting as such. However I'm not entirely sold on buying battlefury on witch doctor seeing as how he is ranged. I'll admit I have flirted with the idea on undying many times. I'll get it in games where I'm given a lot of space to farm and no one is taking it.
plus you can actually make use of the Perseverance ur rushing makes total sense
Melt,
It really isn't that hard considering I random almost every game trying to expand my hero pool. Otherwise if I had just played undying I should have possibly been able to get legend/ancient with no issue. That and I hardly consider myself to be playing seriously when I'm constantly interrupted while playing. It doesn't make it better that I'm matched with extremely toxic individuals in Guardian tier who do not know how to win a game and refuse to buy courier for 30 mins. Even rtz would struggle with such crazy teammates constantly whining and without a courier to ferry his big items.
no he wouldnt. even i would just solo carry that shit.
theres a mute button
Dawn,
I sense you are being sarcastic. Yes it does make total sense, but explaining it to someone with poor comprehension skills and unoriginal thinking is a waste of my time. I will not be Pigeon-holed into specific ways of playing based on prescriptions by "better players". I'm confident you do not understand the basis for your builds, Nor have you even experimented with the build before. Yet you somehow feel dignified in criticising a build while showboating despite being similarly skilled or worse (than me) at the game
I think I know your former name "diox" but Idk where it was.
Btw @hansolo
legend Is not flat 4k it is lower than 4k
simply
3200> normal skill
3200-3999 high skill
4000< VHS
your skills are better than mine ? i can beat u 1 on 1 with my eyes closed xD
RTZ can't carry a crusader game without a courrier ? LOL
Any dota player with some fucking sense would go ahead and buy the dam courier themselves. you don't have to be the "support" in order to buy that shit ur just a 10 MMR player
Try carrying when your mates are constantly fighting you for courier every min, delaying your item by 10 mins, clumping as 4 on the wrong side of the map sharing zero farm (on an all carry team) while getting wiped despite warnings of an impeding gank, which could have been averted had the "support" listened to my suggestion to put a ward down in th area.
I don't mean to be a know-it-all but I can't be bothered captaining disinterested players. I prefer to hang back and enjoy the beating.
you can play the support role your team is lacking.. Even when playing 5th or 4th Position you can win games by winning ur lanes early game and making sure ur carry gets the farm + Putting those much needed wards u were talking about and buying the courier.
Plus, when the other 4 members of ur team are on the wrong side of the map you Can always TP to the other side and split push if you prefer this play style there are several heroes that fit this criteria and so you can start to carry ur games
HanSolo, change your password and give me access and I guarantee you I'll win you 20 games with 95%+ w/r
i alread know what hes gonna say next
you cant support toxic 1k players
they dont know how to use the warding
theres no carry in my team when i support
appearently theres no carry in your team when you carry, too
forever sub 1k, no reason to argue with that dude. his mentality wont let him improve
i know man i know i'm just at work and i'm bored he helps me get through my day thats all
Love u Han <3 and ur 40% Jungling Percentage with RIKI LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Lol I actually don't understand how you can be herald. My buddy played dota for the first time at the beg of the year (without ever playing a moba before) and he got guardian
^ You clearly weren't present for the Tombstone on Death thread ....
this is how:
I saw that shit briefly, something about this herald criticizing a pro for getting tombstone on death talent? Didn't even bother reading through it, waste of time lol
Is it just me or are the forums now filled with shit kids like HanSolo and that other kid Washed Up trying to give everyone advice?
some ppl would like to have a herald smurf to stomp games
i honestly cant tell if this guy made one intentionally or if hes actually taking that many drugs
Well as I explained I have no problems playing in 4k mmr, mind you, but I can't be bothered captaining bad players. Valve has decided to pair me with the worse instead of better ones right at the start, so what can I do?
We make do with what we have. My playstyle is to be with the team as that is most enjoyable for me. To be in the thick of action with aggressive heroes like undying. I am not going to solo splitpush although I am Aware that it wins games. It's also worth noting that it is a big sin to solo and die as the most farmed hero in the game. A risky endeavour indeed.
As to why I ended up herald, I did not bother playing optimally when paired with suboptimal players. Hence if you look at my games, I have high amounts of deaths due to me not wanting to communicate to bad players - every little thing they need to do to score kills and prevent me from dying (all entirely avoidable).
I do not change the way I play to suit those players, so I die often and I couldn't be bothered if they are being toxic. I will just keep repeating my tried and trusted patterns garnered from higher skilled games that I have been in. Often it gets me killed although I probably subconsciously hope my teammates get what I'm trying to do with repeated conditioning. Alas, not much is to be expected of Guardian players.
Their recommendations are often useless anyways.
https://www.dotabuff.com/topics/2017-12-08-tombstone-on-death-
This is what remains of the thread .. Pure gold man pure gold
and he's genuinely stupid no jokes
never knew ure a masochist
I forgot to mention that I random almost every game
honestly i hope for humanity that we are just getting trolled really hard
humanity is dead
It is a grave insult to people with real mental disabilities when you call someone, who is lesser ranked than you in a video game, "genuinely stupid". I suggests you edit your post else I expect the mods should be banning you soon.
In fact, I would question the intelligence of anyone here who thinks their medal - a highly debatable measure of skill - defines their mental capabilities. As I've already explained countless times in great detail (if you bother to read) the reasons for my rank and why it is not reflective of my skill and knowledge of this game.
I challenge any of you archons who've simply followed Cookie-cutter builds and played the game like you memorized a bunch of formulas, to grow a pair and think for yourself before posting senseless criticism.
well thank god im not archon
the only people including myself who were criticizing you on these forums wasn't because of the simple badge it was because of your mentality of criticizing Professional dota players who get paid tons of money to play this game because they are Ten billion times better than you and yet you refuse to listen to anyone's advice including theres.
and thats how we established that you're an idiot and you still are
Is this really HanSolo the Undying king, or is this another of diox's failed troll smurfs? Him having diox as one of his previous names is throwing me off.
I can't find the original account, the one with 1800+ Undying games with sub 50% WR, he must've changed its name.
And btw HanSolo, don't you dare ever call me out for "cookie-cutter" builds, I play support Sniper, support Razor, no battlefury AM, etc. In my 3K games(Archon 5-Legend 2). Higher calibre of opponents. And I win with them. Whereas your alternative playstyles/build of BATTLEFURY DROW, against HERALDS,gets you 1-19.
Blindly following players just because they play in brand name sponsored teams with tons of resources and Analysts at their disposal, and who only play in highly specialised tournament formats with strategic preparation and counter-picking, does not automatically validate your arguments in any form.
As I recall no one with any real suggestions had any actual experience playing the hero with the aforementioned superior build. Just theories and confidence from blindly relying on the niche playstyle of tournament players.
I don't know why I'm the one deserving criticism.
Guess they don't teach critical thinking in schools since Galileo anymore.
https://www.dotabuff.com/matches/3604985468
I tried your build on my alt. It doesn't work. Only won because my teammates were competent enough to play around my "stupidity", letting me go in as bait for all enemy spells, then initiating afterwards.
Some "superior" build that is.
ETd, before criticising the build, I suggest you watch the game. Analysis is always better with full information instead of half. The game was challenging to say the least, with multiple cores feeding. Having myself died a few times due to teammates' misplays, I was in a challenging spot. The easiest and most logical progression from my perserverance was to get more damage as we were sorely lacking it. I had considered linkens of course but the stats would not help at that stage in the game. Demon edge was the obvious choice
Well I see you have trouble understanding the efficacy of the build. Having won the game is proof enough that there is utility. Your teammates were obviously able to "play around it" as you put it, because it is not restrictive. The perseverance is an early game item. Going in as bait is how you are suppose to play the hero and has no correlation with the build. In fact the phase boot aghs and blademail, I would argue, is precisely the reason you could play that role which resulted in a win. What would greaves and double tomb have done to do that? It doesn't scAle.
im out of this
its getting serious where it shouldnt
no please Stay just for the giggles and lols no need to let him get on ur nerves as he did with me in the first thread
Han i will try ur build today just for the sake of experimentation and i will post the results here
Cheers
Melt,
I Apologize if I bored you. We should anyway stay back on topic and not go off about my medal or builds again.
Can anyone else confirm that the boundaries have shifted? I remember right after the update, 3.7 was still VHS. but I suppose after the dust has settled the boundaries have somewhat shifted. That, or matchmaking is just in a really weird spot now.
yes, its bound to the medals now
below legend, legend and higher than legend
I am not criticizing the build itself, feel free to theory craft and test what you want
But I think that the one who lacks critical thinking is you, you are stuck in the mindset of "this is the general build, it is built on a competitive environment, it isn't good on the pub environment". Which isn't wrong per se, but that's a tested build which has been adapted and optimized throughout years of meta shift. And has constant steady results
You assume you always get 6 slotted and steamroll the enemies. In the case of undying the Tombstone plays a key part in the his presence, it's not about being able to pull 2 tombstones, it's about forcing the enemies into a decision making where they focus you and have to deal with a second Tombstone while your team is already being initiated, or not focusing you and getting decayed and ulted. Add blademail to the mix and you farther complicate their decision
The reason why you are able to see success in your build is tied to your level of play, how to say that? People at your bracket don't know how to play. So you are usually left unpunished for going your unorthodox builds. I have yesterday lost to a bootsless blinkless Centaur who built double heart and cutted the waves.
We, as a team, were unable to punish him, I am not pointing fingers, I'm sure I had a part in that, but thar doesn't change the fact that as a semi coordinated unit we weren't able to play around him advantageously.
My point is, I'm a full medal above you, and I am also being sometimes outplayed by weird builds. So a full medal behind me would also lack that game sense
Try to think outside of the mindset you got stuck in
wont even bother reading this
I am not stuck, Nor am I interested in hearing why the build is bad, when as you put it, I've already achieved reasonable success with it.
Until you play in my games where the build is optimized, or have tried the build yourself, it is senseless to say it doesn't work. When it does, as multiple people have reported when they in fact tried it.
first of all
1. Nobody actually reported it was successful ( the only person who tried it and to quote him said " I tried the build and i think i lost my brain cells"
2. You haven't achieved any success with it. you played over 6000 games with Undying with a 0.33 KDA and a below 50% winrate and ur stuck at -1 K MMR
3. you need to go see a doctor u need help
Saying that you are a full medal above me is irrelevant. I play with guardians in most of my games anyway so I know they are nothing special.
Dawn, then with your 40% winrate you haven't achieved any success either so what makes you qualified to judge a build you've never tried? And at the current rate you would end up in herald and I'd like to see you have success with the "standard" build in herald games. Otherwise you are all talk.
i'm at 40% winrate with what ? Lol
and the only reason i have a 47% Winrate is because i have Harold Friends like you Who don't know how to last hit Lols
my man Han