Murs does. He is amazing at brood. Broodmother is just a situational pick. Against some teams brood is excellent, against teams with tons of aoe brood is terrible.
If a good brood mother went up against a team of Drow, Silencer, Huskar, Skelenton King, and Vengeful Spirit ...rax down 4 to 6 min.
@Relentless
u mean tons of low mana & cds
And ya, brood is such a great hero, though very very bad against ES, as he is maybe the only support who can solo kill her with just a dagger+ulti, while pushing
@Relentless let me guess u even fap while watching his replays lmao
biggest ass licker i have ever seen
Are you jealous Vaikiss? The greatness of other players does not make you less.
I have nothing to gain from pointing out how good Murs is. I just admire excellence. Some people like watching the best basketball players or football players. Do you think anyone believes that those fans are trying to suck up to the pro-athlete?
I think Drew Brees is a genius at quarterback. I take special note of him because he was quarterback at Purdue when I was there.
I think Tim Duncan is an incredible basketball player. I take special note of him because he played on my friends youth team in grade school.
I played with Murs in dotacash T2 and inhouse games over a year ago so I take special note of him, though there are plenty of other extremely talented dota players.
I used to play with Grimorum in oloUS and dotacash. He is one of the best pub Invokers I have ever seen, better than some pros. He makes cool videos with Helical. Some people were also upset whenever I said anything about Grimorum being amazing too. They could not accept that I liked his play because they were jealous. Why be jealous? Why not just rejoice in others success and share it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UntGOL1WqE4
@Relentless if veng would be good he would buy sentrys from start for easy lane and spide could sit @ tower
He isn't that great the moment.
That said, if your opponents don't get sentries or you are in a 1v1 situation, you can do really well against a lot of heroes. And you basically just sit in your lane, last hit/deny and send spiders to neuts, the moment the lane is empty? You take down t1. Then t2. And then you go to another lane. Possibly grabbing 1v1 kills with your ultimate + bite.
Like I said this doesn't work so well at the moment, but in the past it was an extremely lame ass strategy that worked quite well.
leaving ur lane is not that effective tbh u just send ur team to keep pressuring oposite sideo of the map while u solo split pushing ur lane (offlane in most of the cases)
@Relentless FAGGGGGGGGGGGOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
+ i have no idea who the fuck is those guys u named
and grimogrum good invoker ? :D bitch pls hes fucking terrible
@Whats that?Self five?Nice
While you can get sentries and try to hold brood down its actually very difficult to do against a good player. At level 1, if you had 2 heros with stuns, you can threaten a brood with senties. But once brood gets 2 points in web and 2 points in spiders there are only a handful of heros that can even survive the lane and not lose the tower. Those would be Sand King, Batrider, too a less extent Qop, Krob, Kotl, Kunka, Lina, DS...but once those Ints run out of mana they are driven out of the lane also...and Kotl stuff is easy to avoid once you have 4 webs up.
The problem is Brood becomes extremely expensive(wards/dust, consumable regen, smoke to get close, time spent doing it) and difficult to kill very early before anyone has items, before supports can afford enough wards, And very few heros can stop a well microed spider push. Most people just send a bunch of spiders at the tower, thats not what I'm talking about. If you have ever faced a player who can block you with a couple spiders, jungle while laning, switch tower aggro with spiders so they can dive you any time...etc then you know what I mean...essentially your tower is not a refuge against a skilled brood player. The invis is not the problem so sentries don't help. Its the vision, the movespeed, and the regen of the webs that make them powerful. The invis is just iceing on the cake.
The main reason Brood loses in Pubs is the same reason Chen and Enchantress do. Its a very high skill cap hero that only a handful of the best players can use to its full potential. Heros like Drow however are extremely low skill-cap heros that merely require not feeding to badly early game to eventually reach their late-game power even if you suck at last hitting and orbwalking. Such a hero wins in pub games.
It all depends on the skill of the players. A good support like Ancient Apparition/Disruptor/Venomancer and other (in good hands) with early sentry wards will not allow to get close to the creeps.
@relentless, so much talk, yet very little of it actually ever happens.
2 heroes with 2 stuns/disables/slows? Very easily done, basically every tri-lane will have 3 at the minimum. And with carries like naix, CK, Tiny, PL being popular, there is something coming from the carry as well. And what can a brood do in a lane against a good carry that has a level advantage and sentries? Nothing. Even without sentries any melee hero with a stout shield is easily able to farm in that lane. He really struggles to win any lane if the opponent has given much thought with their picks/strat. And that is why he sucks, because that is ALL he offers. He isn't a BH who can lose his lane and still give his team ludicrous gold mid game, be able to solo supports with no farm and move around the map very easily and be an absolute godsend to melee carries with the bonus MS that track provides. He isn't a DS who shits all over any melee carry in a lane regardless of the support received, as well as being incredibly tough to take down while also providing a heck of a lot come midgame/lategame. And then you get the point where any hero with decent AoE can deal with his pushes and clear his spider army without much problem. You can probably blame arcane boots for this, allowing for them to be much more liberal in their use of skills.
Brood isn't a high skill hero, he is a BAD hero who was good in the past. Heroes like Chen are consistently doing very well in high level games.
Basically all your arguments are about Brood being a skilled player can do x and y, you know what skilled opponents are going to do? Like they did to murs? Pop a sentry in the lane, kill you at level 1 or send you to your tower, have their carry farm up a level or 2 and then leave the lane while you get shat on 1v1 and proceed to be useless.
edit: oh and grimorum? good? seriously? 3 million alt accounts and still can't reach 50% with invoker, not even on smurf accounts too
None of those heroes can afford to trade hits with brood in the web. You have to send enough power to actualy kill brood, which should be two stuns. Otherwise web regen is a free RoR with every level. Brood movespeed in level 1 web with no boots is already 355.
You could zone brood out with two supports and sentrys from level 1, but they should be stacking and pulling if you have tri-lane or roaming and ganking. The opportnity cost of zoning brood of the lane is higher than what brood loses. And the moment they leave brood gets a couple levels - once there are level 2 webs brood has tons of vision, soul-ring with just 1 or two waves, now regen is +7 and move speed is 380.
You are right that it all depends on the skill of the players, but there comes a point where brood can do more with higher skill using the hero and typical support heroes are capped. The best players can play a vs, cm, or veno up to the theoretical limit of the hero and it still can't take on a brood played by a top player. Disruptor could have some possibilities. I have yet to see anyone play a Disruptor to the full potential of the hero. Its very hard and pros rarely pick it.
I remember when pros first started working in wisp and failed so much. Now wisp is a regular top pick but its such a high skill cap it seems there is always more that wisp could do than it does. Disruptor is similar in that his skills cover so large a range of possible actions and require excellent timing and coordination with the team to be fully effective. So a lot of practice is needed even for excellent teams.
:{ always a sure sign of ppl who don't know how to judge gameplay...they think grimorum is bad at Invoker.
I realize you could be confused by the huge number of people who pretend to be Grimorum and watched one of them...I'll give you guys the benefit of the doubt. Next you will tell me that Dendi is bad at pudge. Anyway when a guy gets on the offical top 10 weekly several times with a hero and you think he is bad...thats just, idk has to be ignorance or trolling. You can't actually have that opinion.
You should watch some of the real Grimorum.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BBkeXvveIk&list=PLC3672A5B52280F8F
#1 play of the week on this one
But I played maybe 200 games with Grimorum, seriously this sort of thing is not that unusual. He chains of combos of 6,7,8 spells about every teamfight late game. Probably chains of 15+ every other game. The only limit is that ppl die, I know he had some old dota 1 games with over 30 when the whole enemy team buys back and dies again. I can't tell you how many times I've seen him kill 4 or 5 enemys solo. I've seen plenty of excellent invokers, but they really can't compare to Grimorum. Maybe if an excellent Invoker player focused on it like Grimorum did they could reach his level. He did play over 4,000 games of Invoker in dota 1 and a couple thousand in dota 2 now. I know morons will laugh but I don't care. Honestly when I watch Dendi play invoker in pro games I think "Wow that was great...but I've seen better". Because I played with the true master of the hero. Dendi has to practice a lot of other stuff, he probably would be as good as Grimorum if he played only Invoker.
Disruptor has been played well, the hero is the issue though, his skills are brilliant in some scenarios, but pathetic in a lot too. He isn't useful against pushes, and heroes that lack disables of some kind really need to make up for it, disruptor doesn't. I mean you can look at KOTL, ridiculous push/defense ability, a pseudo stun that's extremely lame, mana battery is amazing for pushes and in the lane, and recall is almost a free BoT for whoever you want, amazing for split pushing. DS has vacuum, the ability to get gold by himself without support very easily allowing for quick, effortless mek/pipe, and surge/ultimate are both very useful. With disruptor you are looking at glimpse and a few really lackluster spells that don't get better with items.
Anyway, a free RoR means fucking nothing when the enemy carry isn't taking much damage themselves AND they can easily grab a TB and not worry at all about any harass. And unless those 2 supports are actually ganking midlane, for all you know they could be about to gank you, so its not like you are in a position to just trade hits with the other guy anyway, unless you want to risk dying and getting even further behind.
Not sure why you are talking about wisp, he was known to be awesome since release, and he does have issues which are taken advantage often enough for him not to be in every game.
edit: then link his real account, is it 50% or not? And why does
edit2: nope grimorum sucks balls with invoker. Dendi is brilliant with invoker, as is 430, super, yao, etc. Grimorum has no idea how to play as a team, he just picks off retards who walk in one by one in games where there is 0 team coordination.
Oh please, a highlight reel from pub games? Does my rampage 9 minutes into a game count?
how about an actual pro?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRgN1epA0YE
3:30
@relentless u know the difference between good player and wannabe good player ?
good players don't waste their time sending replays to dotacinemas
Ah good we now have some insight. Your definition of good is "not on highlight reels". Maybe your definition of win is "lose", clearly Murs (pro player who wins pro tournements) means "pub stomper" to you, top of stats and ladders means "bad player"...etc
I see now that there is no question you are just trolls. Well good to know.
Btw your link to random Chinese nubs getting owned by extreme luck on RNG abilities is not the slightest bit impressive. Also its totally irrelevant since it doesn't even have an Invoker.
the topic was brood, now shifting to invoker. whats next, nerf pl buff drow?
oh and btw, i raped a brood midlane with od. so your arguments are invalid.
want to know why invalidated? the brood sentried my sentries so he can sentry while i sentry. but i raped him anyway so,
gj ming wp
Why was brood mid? and why did he need to be invis? bad brood player
Brood gives up a lot by going mid. Split push is much stronger if you do two sidelanes. Brood gets maximum advantage from high movespeed in a longer lane. And of course jungling options are quite limited mid at least for the Dire side. Even Radient the side is not easy to reach. And brood is so good with soul ring that bottle doesn't make much sense. Also brood is not great at rune control and does not want to gank...so mid brood is always someone with zero understanding of the hero and probably almost no practice as well.
also the reason brood is a strong hero is beacuse of the pressure it places on the other team
no hero can 1v1 brood except with a much better start than brood and sentries in lane
(excluding obvious counters like tidehunter and ds)
if ur offlaning just try to get xp and control your lane as best u can, zone out/kill supports with spiderlings and farm lane/jungle
i dont recommend going mid but if u do try to farm the lane and both jungles unless they got a jungler
if ur bottom just rape and pressure the shit till they send people to deal with u
is this one of those things where u choose my hero and u choose ur hero cuz thats not exactly fair but i'll still destroy u
Rape (Phantom Lancer) vs. murs (Broodmother)
Someone post the match ID so we can spectate lol
"drow picker"
Are you trying to insult meow for picking Drow? out of 155 games, he's picked Drow once. You've picked Drow 87 out of 236 times. Did you mistype or are you really that stupid?
Naw, don't worry murs, considering Rape can only play 2 heroes, your brood shouldnt have any trouble
Broodmother's one of my favourite heroes, although I'm not sure what level I'm being matched at, it's probably in the silver bracket. My win rate with brood is about 45% but I started playing Dota this year and played a lot of my first games with brood when I had little understanding of the game. Bearing that in mind I find that using brood to push early in any lane is effective at forcing a win, just by pressuring the opposition. I often find myself taking the tier 2 towers in a lane in under 20 mins. I think if I played more Broodmother games now, I'd shift that win rate up. And yes there have been a few game where I owned and carried as Broodmother.
@murs
"no hero can 1v1 brood except with a much better start than brood and has sentries in lane"
Yeah, I guess its just too bad that basically every decent team will have sentries, as well as 2 supports looking for early kills on you and roaming mid/jungle. And that's it, your usefulness is already almost all gone just from that. That's why he sucks, there are no solid attributes that brood has once he loses that. And at the moment we are at a point where even a single support with some aoe is capable of stopping a brood push because of items like AB (and TB for some)
No other offlane hero is in the same boat. Sure they can be ganked and killed the same (some of them), but they make up for it a hell of a lot more with their other abilities.
murs murs? murs
you can challange valkis in esl ladder
http://www.esl.eu/eu/dota2/1on1/series/rankings/
I used to love Broodmother when I was able to take down tier 3 tower within 10 minutes. But that was back then in DOTA 1 even before Soul Ring and when she can spawn 4 spiderlings. The trick was knowing WHEN to start spitting out the Spiderlings. Now I guess she got a bit nerfed or something, and I'm trying to get myself back into shape with her.
I suspect the reason why teams focus fire on her early game is because they know she is that much of a threat.
If anyone has a few replays of her that they think are rather respectable, I'd like to see them please.
Yeah, and it bothers me when people use the pronoun HE for Broodmother. Considering she has the term MOTHER on her title, and she has a female voice actor. Are people really that dense?
Murs, you have an admirable win rate with her. Cheers.
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he sucks so bad