In current patch, if you doubt whether to build Heart of Tarrasque or something else, always build anything that is not HoT. HoT is just bad, generally.
if you have someone to counter initiate when they go on you satanic is useful ithink
I was really unsure what to get last game as Shadow Fiend. I had like madness-travel-skadi-daedalus-bkb..
I was thinking about gettin Satanic instad of hot, but in last moments I decided to go hot anyway, I just felt like more HP is better..
Will take Xan's advice, since I value him as a player, but I'll also coinsider taking actually another set of Skadi, since it seems like an okay option on SF actually..
It just seems that I most of the time struggle with 5 or 6th slot-item as SF.
I can acumulate enough amounts of farm to get it, but it happens that I fail with item-desicions and that actually can lose me the game..
So far I discovered the way of "SF" that suits me well for early to mid game, but I think I really struggle as late-game SF..
It can be the hero also, he's not much of a strong lategame carry compared to others, but it can also be me...
So I just started to question my desicions when it comes to items for BIG lategame.
Game I'm talking about:
http://www.dotabuff.com/matches/1340219619
Went for offlane SF(just don't question it, I can handle offlane SF sometimes, I did fairly good actually)
Tinker got raped mid by roaming Mirana, Pudge got an early advatage, Sniper was most of the time alone, I took advatage with zoning him out with razes-rushing madness for clearing out woods/ancients stacks asap, taking an fast travel after sb(i sold sb later on), started to splitpush lanes, etc...
So far, I turned this game at our advtage, somehow, I failed to end that game when I could, and they kinda comeback at some points of the game(not enough to win, but still).
Then it comes struggle with getting heeart or satanic, and after I decided to go for hot, I started to splitpush the lanes again, took rosh, took their rax and we won..
But still, game could be actually pretty much loss, altrough dotabuff doesnt think so..
another skadi sounds retarded on any hero other than meepo sounds retarded
why would you not get manta/satanic/cuirass/hex instead
HEX doesnt provide enough HP, same goes for Manta.
Curias provides Armor, but without HP, you kinda need both, not only one.
So logical choice seems to be Satanic, or another Skadi cuz of a lot hp/stats.. Why not?
I'd almost never go for Dominator on SF, but later on, chaning it (sell moM, buy satanic) is actally okay sometimes, it really depends.
Buter, on the other hand, is quite good item on SF, but it's also highly situational.
Example: if you need Atack speed, you go mom, you don't waste 3.5k more gold on bfly.
Evasion is kinda useless if you have like 1800-1900HP and 15 Armor as SF, since that Sniper will probably rekt u anyways.
Huh?
You obv don't get hex for the hp? Thats just an extra incentive. You fucking hex whoever is hammering down on you. Hex that axe before he calls, hex that windrunner, hex that void. You hex so they die, not you. And don't go on about how its useless the moment they bkb'd. It just means either 2 things; you have slow hands or you were caught out of position and died before you got the chance to use it.
With skadi you pay another 5000+ gold for 725 hp, 25 damage and 3.5 armor. Con-fucking-grats, thats great value for money! Remove the passive on skadi and you'll see NOONE WILL BUILD IT. Which is essentially what you're building with a second skadi.
With half a brain, manta jukes and well timed hexes will keep you much more alive than a second skadi.
And I don't know everybody thinks the benefit of armor is diminishing, the rate it improves your EHP is the same. The vast majority of their damage comes from rightclicks which is what you build armor for and with your items you have a suitable amount of hp to withstand some retarded finger of death or the average 2x multicast. Not to mention Cuirass provides you with -armor aura which has fucking amazing synergy with your own aura and it makes you not dependent on your MoM. You realize you have almost no attack speed?
I know what I'm recommending. Try to take what people say with a grain of salt. The way you responded makes it seem like you already know what to get but want to see what people say so you can shoot them down.
Baba Yaga, it seems you didn't read corectly the topic question.
I wanted opinions, not a guide how to play Shadow Fiend.
"I know what I'm recommending. Try to take what people say with a grain of salt."
Well I tried. Xan came with nice sugestions, and I actually took that.
You, on the other hand, are acting like you came here to teach me how to play Shadow Fiend, where I just wanted to see what's people opinions on HEART VS SKADI, I never came here to ask what's the best build for Shadow Fiend, hell, I even didn't say this has to do with SF in the first place, that was just an example.
In the first place you gave me sugestions, I answered why I think it's bad, and it should end there.
Trying to teach me how hex or Manta is good on SF is stupid, since after 550 games on SF, I should be brain damaged not to realise pros and cons of that items on SF.
So, I'm not acting like I already know what's best for Shadow Fiend, but I have my way that I play him, and if I need help with it, I'd came with a question: "HOW TO PLAY/BUILD SF", but, this topic ain't about that.
So... No. I'm not an arogant bitch, it's just general attidude with this forum, that people seem to enjoy a lot more then they should when it comes to theorygrafting eg; giving their precious opinions, and thinking their way is the BEST way.
Yeah, 2 Skadi ain't thay bad actually, I'd say.
This:
1. Madness
2. BKB
3. SKadi
4. Skadi
5. Manta
6. Travel
It actually sounds nice to me, I'll try this when I get a chance, just to see how does it feel.
2 skadi is indeed worse than skadi satanic
but honestly I think if you don't find a way to blow up sniper ur gonna lose the fight even if you have 6000 hp
Is either heart or satanic really good at all on Shadow Fiend? It's my understanding from seeing some good players on him that neither of those are good, or even extremely viable.
Should finishing items look like Blink/BKB/Skadi/MKB/Travels/Daedalus or Butterfly?
you should get a sb and keep the madness or go for mkb and still keep the madness or dagger and still keep the madness or cuirass and still keep the madness or eblade and still keep the madness
Dont disregard hex suggestion. Its underrated on lot of carries, but as a 6h item it can be super useful, sf included.
Its just a matter of how organized your team is.
If 5 people catch you out late game you can have 6 hots for that matter, it wont help.
Hot on sf is actually quite bad. You can always find more useful 6th item.
And yeah, satanic is good as 5th or 6th item.
hex on SF is almost core. But 3k trash rather want to stack skadis so they get kited longer by sniper etc. Fucking retard
dont ever get heart on sf, satanic very very rarely, just for cases in which you're dealing blows against someone else that won't stun you (not gonna happen this meta).
ohh, shit its sf thread not item thread i it said shadow feed so...
lol i didnt even read that before posting lol
for hp just bkb is ok
Well heart gives raw hp and regen when you disengage. Satanic gives half the hp but also 5 armor 20 damage and 25lifesteal when not active.
The standard hard carry build is Butterfly Satanic BKB, and Satanic is only really reliable when you have a BKB, so you can use it in conjunction with the satanic active to ensure you get your hits out for +health, or BKB when everyone uses their spells and use satanic after everything is on cooldown.
99% of the time on SF you would get satanic.
In your example versus a void where you assume he will be trying to solo you in a chrono if having a heart versus a satanic actually would let you survive the chrono +500hp -5 armor then you would be so low after the chrono (less than 500hp) that you would be unable to fight anyway.
However with satanic if you survived you would have a chance of popping bkb and satanic and healing to full pretty much ensuring a won team fight.
Also mask of madness is similar to midas, but more useful in fights. You would always look to get rid of this late game for a satanic. Which is why a lot of sf players just buy HoD stack ancients to try to get value from the items while turning it into a late game investment.
I don't really get why you'd want more hp than skadi + bkb + manta/s&y. Seems like overkill. More dmg to kill em quicker imo. Get butterfly, another daedulus, mkb.
Xan, I'm aware Hex might be good, but still, it just seems like no-one didn't pay atention what I asked in the first place.
Satanic is better compared to Heart, that's what I was asking for pretty much, so, thanks.
Anyway, won't bother answering into this tread anymore, since it's just pointless.
^
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Let's say you're Shadow Feed, got already something like:
1. Madness
2. Travel
3. Skadi
4. Daedalus
5. BKB(if needed, or AC/Eblade/Manta - depends on the mood/needs)
You want to tank as much as DMG possible, and you need to tank it against this lind of lineup:
Their initiation: Axe
Their main DPS: Sniper
Their supports/disablers Lion, Ogre
Offlaner: Windranger/Faceless Void(y, he can go offlane)
So, what's better? Extra Armor/Amazing lifesteal if I pop satanic ON or just RAW amounts of HP with let's say 17 armor(thats amount of armor you'll have as SF at lvl 25 if you skip AC/eblade/manta and buy BKB if u need to.)
Keep in mind you'll take extra-dmg because you'll keep your madness orb for extra attack- speed.