General Discussion

General DiscussionAc on CK

Ac on CK in General Discussion
Dire Wolf

    Idk how to build CK, been going drums, casual morbid mask (into dominator, possibly satanic later), s&y. From there if I feel I need bkb I get bkb, I know a lot of people skip bkb on CK cus it reveals you, but players seem to be able to aoe all my shit down fast anyway and locate me regardless and there's a lot of magic dmg flying around most matches.

    I go the morbid mask to help farm jungle and just sustain. Drums is a good stat item on a hero who's mana pool is terrible. I'm kinda wondering if manta might be better than s&y now that manta illusions were buffed.

    But after those I can't ever decide what to get. Some games enemy has radiance or butterfly and I want mkb but it seems garbage for illusions, though I guess they get truesight. Basher is a nice item, but again, doesn't help illusions. I'm usually deciding between heart or ac. Ac seems to do a lot more vs towers and if I've already gone s&y, drums, bkb I have a lot of hp as is. So maybe heart better for fighting with ult up, ac better for everything else?

    Mind Games

      I dont know why you never mentioned Manta Style

      TripleSteal-

        recently i've seen ppl going pt-armlet-dominator-manta-HoT

        NYANTYPEHUMANDESTRUCTIONW...

          armlet
          where the heck is this item man it's so freakin good
          you slaps people with it

          Mekarazium
            This comment was removed by a moderator
            NYANTYPEHUMANDESTRUCTIONW...

              ^ ganking ck sounds fun :3

              Androgynous

                against radiance it's not worth getting mkb for it as an illusion hero. just cos you've got miss chance doesn't mean you need mkb. if it gave 1% miss chance would you get mkb against it? no. same applies to radiance - the miss chance doesn't lower your dps enough to warrant getting true strike

                radiance basically gives you a 1/6 miss chance, so your dps is now 5/6 of what it was earlier because you're missing attacks. if you get mkb then your dps is 20% more since all your attacks hit i.e you're now hitting 6/6 attacks, not taking into account the stats of mkb which are almost negligible when it doesn't apply to illusions.

                the 5400 you spend on mkb on a ck could be spent on something else that would give you more than a 20% dps increase (or at least a similar increase) and also give u other stats, like a heart or skadi.

                any other source of evasion/miss you should still get mkb though.

                ac should be better than heart for illusion dps. 20 attack speed and -5 armour later in the game will do more than 40 attack damage. heart's obviously good for slow sieging though.

                Stinkoman

                  [Magic Wand] → Treads → Drums → Halberd → Manta → Heart → Skadi → [AC/Satanic/etc]

                  Stinkoman

                    Illusions DO NOT benefit from auras. They carry it, but get nothing from it.

                    Androgynous

                      illusions benefit from movement speed and attack speed from auras. the illusions also apply the -5 armour to enemies so they benefit from it - they deal increased damage.

                      Riguma Borusu

                        If you get AC you can siege towers quicker and more persistantly, and it's nice that illusions carry the aura, so you can help splitpush when you're near the base.

                        EDIT: Well, yeah, that, basically.

                        This comment was edited
                        jojojojo

                          i build ck with the mindset of fighting and pushing early..
                          so my build is the same as the Agressif PL which is aquila > treads > wand > drums..
                          i start joining fights with my OP ult at around level 9 or 10 and push towers..

                          then i build armlet then heart..

                          npc
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                            takodoro

                              You can then split sny for manta + Silver edge.

                              Ult + manta, invis in, whack, stun, rift for ultimate pick off...

                              matrice

                                illusion benefit from yasha's and drum aura, not ac's (well they still transport it)

                                Basically, illusion's as is only affected by drum aura of TC, which were used in yasha, drum and shiva.
                                For some unknown reason, firebird of phoenix are also slowing their as, And unless they changed it when moving to reborn, ac's still doesn't increase as of illu.

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                                arin

                                  well illusions still carry the -armor debuff, no?
                                  so it affects illusions' damage, indirectly

                                  Trodlabundin

                                    yes it does buff illusions damage, just doesnt increase their atk speed.

                                    Pt wand drums sny blink is a good general build.

                                    Armlet can be good if there isnt much that can stop u from armlet toggling hardcore.

                                    arin

                                      why do you get blink and how do you play with it?

                                      Trodlabundin

                                        because it increases your intiation range by one million. It also lets you pick of basically any carry hero there is in the pool. You can also more or less get your intitation on the best targets. Aka you get a jump on winter wyvern in enemy team whos the only one that can deal with you. (just an example.)

                                        You use ulti, blink and rift = instantkill. Otherwise you would ulti, blink, stun and rift.

                                        The illusions will follow you from far away so you can get top of a hero from a crazy range.
                                        Just think of a Chaos Knight without a blink, and one with.

                                        Obviously there are scenarious where you don't need to have these abilities where other builds can be better.

                                        A lot of people buy BKB on Chaos Knight, which can be respectable in some cases, but often bought when it's useless.

                                        Chaos Knight without his illusions is basically just a weak boy you can easily deal with. BKB alone will let you get off your abilities, but it doesn't win you the game. Your illusions will still die to AoE burst.

                                        It's all about playstyle though, for me blink works great. If you can utilize blink to its potentional it's always gonna be a great option.

                                        Sange and Yasha lets you stay on a target. I've played with both SnY and Manta, prefer SnY. While Manta increases your farm ability/splitpush, it doesn't really do that much in fights. Maim proccs coupled with Rifts means no heroes gonna get away. If you have manta the dogshit Doom would flee.

                                        edit: You have to try it. I can't elaborate just in words why it's good. You have to try it to realize its potentional.

                                        This comment was edited
                                        Guts

                                          Why get an AC when you can get a skadi.

                                          twitch.tv/LuckyNumberXI

                                            PT - ARMLET - HOD - MANTA - AC/SKADI = Win game

                                            Dire Wolf

                                              I did mention manta, was wondering if with the buff it's core now. I hated it before cus of the high mana cost. I don't know how you guys skip drums, seems like I never have enough mana without.

                                              I dislike armlet, you have to make sure it's fully on before casting ult or illusions don't get it, and it seems to drain hp too quickly to persist but if I go hod all the time now I guess it might be fine.

                                              AC, the illusions don't get IAS but the hit stuff with armor debuff so it absolutely helps them.

                                              I guess my main question was heart vs ac late. Ac seems much better for killing towers, heart for everything else. Though I hadn't considered skadi. -Armor on towers though will still kill them quicker than any dps from skadi.

                                              Might try treads, armlet, dominator, s&y, skadi next time.

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                                              Ath[e]isT

                                                Tldr: how do you not know how to build ck...... Its so fucking cookie cutter guys......BUILD ARMLET then build stat items (sny manta skadi heart satanic ect) building shit like AC is kinda retarded

                                                Androgynous

                                                  fyi the 20 attack speed from AC aura does work. I tested it.

                                                  CK with lv 6 has 14 agi and 5 levels of agi gain @ 2.1 per level, so 24 agi.

                                                  therefore his attack time is 1.7 / 1.24 or 1.37s

                                                  if his attack speed was increased by 20 from AC, his attack time would become 1.7 / 1.44 or 1.18s, which is evidenced in these images.
                                                  http://imgur.com/a/Md7ww

                                                  the time at which the attacks landed with the AC were at 30.70, 31.90, 33.10, 34.27 and 35.47.
                                                  the difference in time between each attack is: 1.2, 1.2, 1.17 and 1.2s

                                                  while without the AC, the times were 5.54, 6.97, 8.34, 9.71, 11.07 and 12.44
                                                  the difference in time between each attack is: 1.43, 1.37, 1.37, 1.37 and 1.37s.

                                                  different attack animations have slightly different attack points if I'm not mistaken.

                                                  I think the choice is between heart or skadi, which one you should pair with the AC. they're more comparable to each other than to AC as they both give lots of survivability to his illusions as well as raw HP, while AC is strictly for damage since the positive armour from the assault aura doesn't apply to them.

                                                  takodoro

                                                    I think that is suppsed to be a bug.

                                                    BlackXargon

                                                      Treads ---> Wand --> Drums/S&Y --> Dominator --> Then you're good to go for mid game

                                                      Armlet --> Build during mid game, if you snowball, add Manta

                                                      Late game Build --> Heart of Tarasque

                                                      gg wp.

                                                      Androgynous

                                                        regardless of whether it's a bug or not, it works so saying that you shouldn't get AC because illusions don't benefit from it is false.