I've just started playing Lion and I've been enjoying this hero. I feel like Lion is a decent, balanced hero and scales well into the late game due to his high damage nuke, unlike supports like Crystal maiden, and maybe Lich even. Lion has reliable disables with 3 of his spells but to use them to effectively and to their full potential, you need to position yourself in a teamfight well. If you can do this properly, you'll have a favourable teamfight. I feel like your aim with lion is to play your role as a pos 4/5 effectively and disable heroes long enough and efficiently enough for your team to take them down.
Don't talk shit please.Please.PLEASE.
stun/hex/huge mana drain+slow/600 dmg nuke.
Read that in lion voice. Been to hell and back and back to hell and back.
Trash.
Lion is trash, especially pos 5 lion, whenever i know i have a pos 5 lion in my lane it makes me want to run down mid, because it's essentially a sololane at that point. Lion has terribly low base damage amd cant trade for shit with anyone but techies. But if youre picking lion in the first place you are probably retarded enough to walk into mines instead of hitting them so you lose the trade anyway
yes yes yes,exactly! 2 times my DIVINE 5 trash carries last picked am and lost lane, going woods after 4 min and called my chen useless creep.
you know, its your pos 5 fault that first picked chen/lion/etc and its not yours who cant pick sth make them work.
happy to see all these subhumans struggling +6 years in their dogshit mmr. satisfying tbh
Next time do everyone a favor and walk down mid when you see a first pick Lion. We Support players don’t have the luxury of last picking and we cannot play Lich, Oracle and whatever support hero you Almighty carry approve off. So when you see a lion pos 5 use Whatever braincells you have and don’t pick a weak laner. :-)
The main reason people play Lion is because of his scaling ult; gaining damage per kill makes the hero seem more fun to win with. Its the same reason LC is always at one of the most picked heroes even when she isn't meta. Its also the reason heroes like pudge, invoker and rubick are always so high up the pick list. They're fun to play, and at the end of the day thats the reason everyone plays Dota. That'll also contribute to Lion losing more than he should, people pick him regardless of the scenario and whether or not the player is actually good with Lion.
But also, Lion is a fine support; two hard disables on a hero is rare, and his ult's scaling is designed to reduce cooldown later in the game as the damage increase isn't huge per level. 600 damage at level 6 is insane burst damage and should guarantee a kill everytime its off cooldown.
By comparing him to Snapfire also isn't a fair comparison as its pretty clear she isn't a totally balanced yet and will get nerfed in the next patch.
Not about first or last picking. It simply a hero that has no ability to farm. Weak at laning putting pressure on your carry and sucks at ganking early due to long cd ult. Most braindeads try to rush dagger which only gets them killed more often than not. We all know that it is quote fun to zap people and get increased damage but this isnt patch 7.3. Supports like lion in most games are poor as fuck. I dont think i seen a single lion in the current patch even able to finish agh before losing where as in previous patches it was seen every game
Nice logic bro. I suggest you play a few support games before you start spewing your wisdom.
Asylum you say lion is good yet you avoided playing lion for 2 month now. Even subconsciously you know How game losing it is and avoid it.
I simply don’t play Lion 5 cause i’m better on other heroes. That doesn’t mean Lion isn’t a good support hero. I’m not here to argue but as a core player you shouldn’t waste your time and attitude on what your position 5 picks or doesn’t pick focus on you and your drafting because that’s what’s going to matter most.
48% winrate on riki are you fucking kidding me?
And you are crying about supports. Core players have lower iq i swear
Yeah, Lion is best played as greedy pos 4. Not suitable in lower MMR pubs. Shaman on the other hand is dumber, stronger and safer.
Both of them are below average now, Bane good.
Lion vs Shaman, 1v1, Shaman wins. The only exception is if Lion catches Shaman 1st and kills him in a stun duration. Lion playstyle is more of sucking mana and running away, hoping that the enemy needs to go back base to replenish mana. He lanes by spamming 3rd skill, hoping the enemy will miss the last hits. Otherwise your 3rd skill becomes useless.
I would say, go with classic Windranger with maelstrom and hex, you stand to gain a lot more. Bane is also good, but lacks aoe.
Lich is worse, mana cost for 1st skill is so high an opponent with enough regen will survive the lane. His gaze cast range is low and stun not as long as lion's. 2nd skill is good but need your carry to coordinate. His ulti only works against noobs so gd luck.
^
you know, its your pos 5 fault that first picked chen/lion/etc and its not yours who cant pick sth make them work.
Agree.
IDK how u dogs can say lion is poor laner.Stun + mana drain is sick. You just suck playing him. Maybe tell your carry to pick ursa/mk and you can literally kill any hero at level 2.
You gotta see past the laning stage. It's true that it's not particularly hard to bully Lion into uselessness in the lane, but his role in the team becomes increasingly valuable later. At the same time he can do well as long as the carry on the team picks something that synergizes well instead of something that needs the space a strong laner can provide.
Hex useless? Instant disable with 0s cast time for 4 s when max level. Idk what so useless about that.
Yes pudge is useless but at least he is tanky and a natural pipe builder. So sick of traq dagger lions. If you just pick snapfire a hero that naturally get greaves every game or venge a hero that gets vlads or orge tanky and has bloodlust you win so many more games on average.
Tf you tards talking bs bout my boi lion? If you don't have lion hand immortal pls shut up😎😎
People refuse to play support then complain about other people playing it. Go do it yourself then if others cant do it right.
@jack attack I do, do it myself when I support I often go 16-3 on something like wd. I help my cores win fights etc. But when it is my turn to have some fun on a core I get garbage support lions with naked tranq dagger and no impact.
almost all endgame carries build manta or have illusions to some sort
lion can deal with pl's mass army of illusions
double mana drain can insta delete mantas illusions
blink hex is almost guaranteed kill if ur not playing alone and finger is just 20 second cooldown after u buy 4.2k gold item
people who visit this forum ,for understanding this place these are for you:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Down_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain_damage
What OP says.
o, do it myself when I support I often go 16-3 on something like wd. I help my cores win fights etc. But when it is my turn to have some fun on a core I get garbage support lions with naked tranq dagger and no impact.
Also OP
Want to see proof? Watch this link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnIoZ6nFeso
(video by immortal player 'speed')
Still not convinced, go play Lion yrself.
Ya once you play a few lion games yourself you quickly see the weakness and how much harder games are compare to other support picks you try
Merci Beaucoup ??? you played lion 4 month ago when it was on a different patch. The whole point is 7.24 lion is awful.
Lion maybe not a good pick this patch, but he is stable pick. What I mean stable is, you can perform consistently regardless Allies and Enemies pick.
I hardly pick Lion because the support heroes that are good this patch are all my fav heroes like Disruptor, Grimstroke, Snapfire, Nyx, or even Lich.
But, for other player, especially new player, Lion is a really cool hero compared to Disruptor.
If you've just played support, you will understand that the meta heroes this patch are a bit hard to use, unlike Lion
The main problem with Lion is, for a hero that is so squishy and slow-moving, he has two skills that requires him to risk positioning , Earth Spike and Mana Drain.
Mana Drain is absolute dogshit, it contributes nothing in teamfight but make the squishy hero stand and suck for as long as he can live. I max this skill last so sucking 100% mana from carries never happens. Lion doesn't always spam skills either.
As for Earth Spike, you will realise that using Impale as Nyx is a lot easier than using Earth Spike as Lion. Because Nyx has a natural invis, a natural escape and is tanky enough to risk positioning. Earth Spike must always be paired with Hex, which has 400+100 cast range, absolute dogshit cast range, it's like asking to be killed.
The very moment I tried Lion, I felt extremely restricted. He's simple but not easy.
i agree the full value of lion is actually the fact his impale hits for a lot longer than the targeting. If you target hero stun you have to be really close where as if you ground stun it can go really far and it more of a skill shot. I think it is a problem of previous patches where lion was legit one of the best supports in the game that it made everyone just subconsciously pick it even though its days are long gone.
Yes there r many better options. I suggest u contract the devs team so they will remove lion
Hex AoE + 3*targets mana drain against illus matchups that can go lategame.
Does it kill also 'strong illusions' (7.23) as well is the question.
Nah unfortunately they do nerf him, doesn't kill strong illusion (ck and venge illusion) but doesn't mean lion is now bad vs ck at all.
^whose stats are those?mine, tekaaluk
Well i tried a lion game yesterday in my ranked and i got stomped on lane. But in truth as i said before i’m not a lion player and I haven’t played the hero in 3-4 months but i just couldn’t make it work. On the other hand i’m destroying games as Viper 5 so dunno. Maybe my Legend mate knows a thing or two.
Yes in patch 7.24 you are no longer suppose to lose safe lane. With no shrine and outpost for the offlane. Lane dominator supports great when paired with common heroes like naix pl antimage riki. Viper is a lane dominator it is no wonder you had a greater chance of winning that game.
I bLaMe My 5 FoR hIs LiOn PiCk, EveRy BoDy MuSt PlAy MeTa AnD hAvInG fUn In ViDeO gAmE iS nOt AcCePtAbLe
BuT iF i QuEuE sUp To GeT 4 ExTrA cOrE qUeUeS i DoNt MiNd PicKiNg PuDge AnD yOu CaN sUcK mY fAtTy SmAlL dIcK
=)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
when you wanna grow up buddy? times ticking!
but its fine, typical childish behavior of a pudge picker. manchild indeed.
i can fucking believe what you just said. school is over buddy.
yeah i agree i dont like lion as support either but its barely better than getting a riki/invoker/zeus/pudge/techis as support. i think valve should make people able to tip peoples picks so people who get alot tips get higher behavior score etc.
id say a disruptor/kotl/dazzle/shaman/oracle hard support pick is considered the best. given they dont touch creeps ofc.
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Lion has low damage, his stun is very lackster, hex does no damage. Low armor and a lvl 6 ult that is 160 cds.
Compare it to a hero like lich alot of damage, team fight, low cd nukes, a long range stun, 60% damage reduction and higher armor. There is also snapfire 2000 damage ult on a very low cd and 2 nukes that do massive damage and high armor.
Stop picking game losing heroes.