ye it does but players lower than 6k dont have the brains to understand if u know what i mean )))))
between 0 to 7, that +1 armor is a 6% to 4% increase in physical resist resp. based on current armor.
so, if you are laning with high armor heroes, the +1 won't be that impactful but when laning with 0 armor heroes, every point of armor is fat value.
any bonus regen in laning stage is value.
The low armor additions are really big. The closer to zero you get to, the bigger the impact. So a low armored hero like Alchemist, Huskar etc. benefits greatly from those early armor items and spells... But if your lategame Terror Blade goes from 55 to 60 armor, the change is negligible. Math equation issues... Also, if you can reduce targets armor into the minus side (which is possible), you acually get a damage bonus on top of the seen numbers on your hero. Putting minus armor on that Skywrath Mage is actually buffing you to do more damage than you are hitting for.
Metsis - its clear why are you 1k after ~7k matches. Pls dont answer on other people questions about dota, because you have literally no idea what you are saying
armor being less effective is not true, or at least it's not true in the way people often think it is. my info is from 2018 but im pretty sure they didnt change how armor works, only the numbers
max hp = the value you see on your health bar
effective hp (ehp) = how much damage is actually required to kill you. 2000 max hp + 50% magic resistance = 4000 ehp vs magic. 2000 max hp + 50% reduction from armor = 4000 physical ehp
physical ehp = max hp * (1 + armor * .06) (probably not .06 now, look up in wiki)
this means each point of armor gives you 6% of your max hp as physical ehp. this goes for your 1st point of armor as well as for your 50th point of armor, they all give the same amount of physical ehp. it doesn't depend on how much armor you already have so there's no diminishing returns in that sense.
the only way in which armor has diminishing returns is in this sense:
1) physical ehp depends on max hp as well as armor, and since they are multiplied, the more armor you have, the more ehp you will get from purchasing max hp. this works the other way around as well, you get more benefit per armor point if you have high hp.
2) since there is a limited amount of money and slots, there is a point after which you would get more ehp from buying a hp item instead of continuing to stack armor. in that, and only in that sense armor has diminishing returns. armor doesn't become less valuable the more of it you have, it just becomes less valuable compared to max hp if you seek to maximize total p. ehp with as little money as possible
@copenhagen to pandemonium what you provided as formula is incorrect. there is diminishing returns to every point of armor (in the negative and positive directions).
armor being less effective is not true, or at least it's not true in the way people often think it is. my info is from 2018 but im pretty sure they didnt change how armor works, only the numbersmax hp = the value you see on your health bar
effective hp (ehp) = how much damage is actually required to kill you. 2000 max hp + 50% magic resistance = 4000 ehp vs magic. 2000 max hp + 50% reduction from armor = 4000 physical ehp
physical ehp = max hp * (1 + armor * .06) (probably not .06 now, look up in wiki)
this means each point of armor gives you 6% of your max hp as physical ehp. this goes for your 1st point of armor as well as for your 50th point of armor, they all give the same amount of physical ehp. it doesn't depend on how much armor you already have so there's no diminishing returns in that sense.
this is wrong as of right now and im pretty sure it never worked like this anyways
TB at lvl1 with 0 items, each armor point is worth 3.9% phys reduction
TB at lvl 30 with 0 items, each armor point is wroth 1.96% phys reduction
TB at lvl 30 with 6 ACs+ex machina (+20 armor neutral item), each armor point is worth 0.73% phys reduction
if there were no DRs and each armor point would give 4-5% phys reduction like it does for a 0 base armor hero like tiny at lvl 1, tb would be well past physical immunity at max lvl with 0 items
also regarding ehp
for 33 armor and 2400 hp ehp is 2400/0.3356=7151
for 66 armor and 2400 hp ehp is 2400/0.2017=11899
It doesn't matter how many is the percent change from point to point, the EHP difference will be still HP * ~6%, just as you just proved in:
for 33 armor and 2400 hp ehp is 2400/0.3356=7151
for 66 armor and 2400 hp ehp is 2400/0.2017=11899
11899 - 7151 = 4748 (EHP diff with 33 armor diff)
4748 / 33 = 144 (every point of armor difference between 66 and 33 armor gave 144 ehp)
2400 * 6% = 144 (which is the same as the HP * ~ 6%)
You could just calculate the same thing like:
for 33 armor: 2400 * (1 + (33 * 0.06)) = 7152 (just one off from 7151 becuase its not exactly 6%)
for 66 armor: 2400 * (1 + (66 * 0.06)) = 11904 (5 ehp off from 11899 becuase its not exactly 6%)
or another example:
2400 hp 5 armor (22.8% reduction) = 3108.8
Difference from 33 armor:
7151 - 3108.8 = 4042.2
%resistance difference per armor: (66% - 22.8%) / 33 = 1.31% (so you could say, every armor point gave from 5 armor to 33 armor 1.3% dmg reduction on average)
Ehp diff per armor: 4042 / 28 = 144.36 (2400 * ~6%) (and every armor point from 5 armor to 33 armor gave 144EHP)
Difference from 66 armor:
11899 - 3108.8 = 8790.2
%resistance difference per armor: (79,83% - 22.8%) / 61 = 0.93% (so you could say, every armor point gave from 5 armor to 66 armor 0.9% dmg reduction on average)
Ehp diff per armor: 8790.2 / 61 = 144.1 (2400 * ~6%) (and every armor point from 5 armor to 66 armor still gave 144EHP)
As you can see the math is not that simple, that the percentage difference is smaller so the EHP boost is also smaller. The EHP difference is always the same even from 100 armor to 101 or 0 to 1
yes nvm ^ is correct. every point of armor is 6% increase in ehp.
there are diminishing effects in terms of the damage taken multiplier armor provides but not for ehp, except when theres negative values.
he is not tho, 50 armor to 52 gives you +1% more dmg reduction and EHP diff ~= 0.01*(16/9)*HP its not even 2% inc
thats just the dmg multiplier the armor provides. i thought the same thing but if you take any hp value and start calculating the ehp increasing the armor 1 by 1 you'll see its always the same number that gets added which is ~6%
thats true actually my bad, i was lazy in precisions and they play a big role
formula says EHP = (1 + 0.06*Armor) * HP so ΔEHP = 0.06 * HP * ΔArmor
with 700 HP on early lvls you get 42 HP for every armor or we can say +1 armor means you can tank one extra hit
there are diminishing effects in terms of the damage taken multiplier armor provides
this is technically true, but % damage taken is kind of a meaningless metric, because 1) it has the same meaning as ehp, 2) it scales asymptotically (can you say that??? idk it asymptotically approaches y=0 is what i mean) and as such is confusing
OX is physical reduction%, OY is physical ehp you get per point of hp == how much actual damage you need to deal in order to deal 1 dmg after armor reduction
as an average person, your first instinct to assume that 10% to 20% reduction from armor is the same value as 20% to 30% - makes sense, it seems like 10% damage reduced both times.
the graph clearly shows it's incorrect though, and you can easily check in your head: 0 -> 10% makes you take 90 instead of 100 damage = 10% less damage. 80% -> 90% makes you take 10 instead of 20 damage = 50% less damage.
yes, each additional point in % reduction requires more armor, but it's offset by the fact that each additional % has more value. no diminishing effects here, the true nature of armor <-> ehp relationship is linear, and it's also easier to reason about armor effectiveness using physical ehp rather than % damage reduction, for reasons described above. it's far easier for our monkey brains to operate with linear functions
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How significant is +1 armor? Abilities like Gush increase the armor 1 value per level same with Divine favor. But is Divine Favor a bad spell? It has a value level to it, but when maxing it, does that armor and regen really mean anything?