Second part of our Aghanim’s Scepter Tier list. Today we will be concentrating on utility cores, your typical offlane heroes, whose primary goal is generally not to dish out massive amounts of damage, but rather create conditions for winning fights, providing auras, crowd control and an annoying target for the enemy to waste their spells on.
Our S Tier Agh’s discussion starts with a borderline A or even B Tier Aghanim’s Scepter. In games where it fits, it is amazing. In others, it is a somewhat selfish slot that allows Earthshaker to be highly mobile and survivable, but won’t necessarily be game-changing. If you are facing enemy with ways to globally cancel your Blink Dagger or enemies with invisibility, long range nukes or high reach, going for it is the best option and the Agh’s will pay off. Otherwise, building it after Blink, Force Staff and/or Eul’s is probably preferable.
This Agh’s starts to shine once you get to level 15 and get 2s Shield Crash CD talent. It is only then that it starts to be an S Tier item, since the amount of extra damage and potential for disarm simply skyrockets. Pangolier is a lot more niche in the current patch—with no access to silence from Lucky Shot, the hero lost quite a bit of his utility, but in game where you are facing hard-hitting, auto-attacking cores he is still really, really good.
One of the more underrated Agh’s in the game, but definitely high in the list. The way Slardar was played previously, is he would build Blink and Force Staff, initiate, rotate out and then go for round two. With the changes to how Bash of the Deep works and the lower stun duration on Slithereen Crush, it was no longer an option. Slardar needs to stay on his target to keep on being relevant as a position three, and Agh’s solves tons of his sustain and movement speed problems, allowing him to stick to his target.
40% damage reduction and the ability to disengage from practically any fight can break the game for the enemy team. We’ve seen this Aghanim’s in action during TI8 and it is still as good as it was.
Global GA allows Omniknight to guarantee that he gets this spell off. Omniknight is generally the first target the enemy wants to go on, since he can easily turn around a fight, while providing great auras and saves, and the Agh’s solves most of the hero’s positioning problems. Extra 400 HP on top of it is also pretty neat and can help repair some structural damage as well.
Potential 4.5 seconds of stun on a spell immune enemy is not something to underestimate. Dream Coil is an amazing teamfight ability, but with the upgrade it stays relevant throughout the whole game. Moreover, with the +420 GPM talent and the ability to consume Agh’s, it is now much easier to continue to grow the hero into the later stages of the game, with an extra potential slot.
This is borderline B Tier, but once again, there are games where Blink Dagger simply won’t be as good. Applying Caustic Finale is kind of cute, but it doesn’t really do much in most cases, while the extended range is great for mobility, but doesn’t benefit from having potential 3-second cooldown as Enchant Totem does.
Utility Weaver was played several times in the professional scene and remains a good flex pick. Agh’s on him more or less ensures a second life on one of your cores every 16 seconds and means that the enemy will have to go on you, if they want to win a teamfight. With Weaver being as elusive as he is and with the generous cast range on the ability, it will turn the fights into a very difficult puzzle to crack for the enemy.
This Agh’s does little for DPS Windranger, but it is pretty good for a utility one. Unless the enemy has tons of lockdown and magic damage, they will have to build MKBs, otherwise Windranger will be free to run around them in circles for almost 20 seconds uninterrupted, slowly peeling the problematic target. That makes her really hard to ignore and very hard to deal with until the later stages of the game.
This is simply superb for a position three Wraith King. After getting some auras and initiation tools, the hero can build Aghanim’s and more or less ensure constant even trades or better. This makes defending highground, taking objectives or simply fighting a lot easier, especially in a less coordinated pub environment.
Double Damage+ for all your teammates is a very strong effect. Most professional teams run, when they see heroes like PA, TA or Troll Warlord with DD, or try to purge the effect off. It is not an option against Sven and his team is not at the mercy of random when it comes to actually getting DD rune. This is a strictly position three Sven item and strictly after getting sustain and initiation tools, but it is worth it.
This is an underrated Agh’s, especially in fights that don’t involve creeps. -30% damage output reduction is a low-commitment way to force the enemy purge effects or even BKB, while making the game a nightmare for supports. If you have a tanky or mobile lineup that already has ways of saving teammates, it can quickly snowball a fight, though many items still take priority for Axe.
This sounds so good on paper buts does a lot less in practice, except for some specific cases. Sure, it is possible to stack a lot of damage amplification on targets, but they are generally not that static and Beastmaster himself doesn’t typically deal a lot of damage. But if you are in a position where you know you will need to defend highground, it becomes pretty crazy at stalling the game. It can also be an interesting greedy option in lower level pubs, but having auras, saves for your teammates or extra utility is more reliable overall.
12-second CD on a 2-second stun that goes through spell immunity is a great upgrade, but there are also strategic implications. This allows Clockwerk to be more risky with his hookshots, since misses are not as punishing, and that means more initiation power as well as higher mobility. Borderline A Tier.
There are games where you will absolutely need it and there are games where the effect is redundant, but overall it is a great upgrade that can really help with problematic heroes, while ensuring tanky right-clicking enemies don’t get to just turn and fight through the effect of Doom. It is good in maybe 20% of the games, but when it is good, it is great.
A weaker version of Sven’s Agh’s, but the one that works all the time. It is feasible this gets your team 100+ damage and for teams with low pushing power it can be a godsend. It is also one of the best stalemate breakers in the game, since even if the enemy buys back, they already “fed” your team tons of damage.
Tankier illusions and lower cooldown are already pretty good, but the ability to dispel and break focus on one of your cores is what makes this Agh’s good. Position three Chaos Knight is not unheard of and is a good lane dominator. Given how the hero has problems farming, it might even be a preferable position for the hero and Agh’s suits it really well.
Come level 20 this is a potential 500x2 damage nuke, but most of the time Bounty Hunter can probably do more with a simpler BKB. This might be good in games against high armor targets and if you get an amazing start, but there are more reliable builds for the hero that involve either more damage from auto-attacks, utilizing Track crit, or higher utility.
Four seconds of BKB-piercing disable is never bad and an extra target sounds good on paper, but it is quite easy to counterplay. This is probably borderline B Tier in pubs, but not as amazing in higher level games, since there are typically answers to Lasso.
Once again, having auras is simply going to be better, at least in most cases. Having access to extra abilities can be great and can probably have comparable utility if Brewmaster is played perfectly, but no one plays Dota perfectly and the limiting human factor makes this suboptimal or at least less reliable.
140% base damage from illusions is no joke and this is borderline A tier in ~15% of games, but Dark Seer is mostly less about damage and more about teamfight disruption and control. Having more utility and allowing your DPS cores to do their job better will be more optimal in most cases.
The damage is only substantial if you land a 3+ man Black Hole and channel through the whole duration, but then, you would win a fight in 80% of the cases anyways. It does increase in value dramatically against enemies with high HP pools and is borderline B Tier against something like Dragon Knight, but otherwise having more reliability on your control is preferable.
This is kind of cute and interesting and is pretty good with Blink Dagger when you are jumping supports, but surviving through the enemy response after the initiation or having ways to kill supports faster takes priority. Most players will delta-split with Force Staffs after the jump and then you are on a single priority target anyways.
This is borderline B Tier. Extra attacks needed to kill the egg and the ability to save teammates should not be underrated, but frequently it can also kill your teammates. Turning into a potential Death Star wasn’t the buff we would like to see, but it is pretty interesting, since it can deal a ton of damage, especially to tankier targets.
Potential AoE 12 armor reduction against enemies with armor on the lower side can be devastating, but it is rarely the item Tidehunter wants. Once again, Auras are the name of the game and their effect is typically much stronger. Given how Agh’s can be consumed later, it can be justified as a 5-th or 6-th slot, but striving for Shiva’s and Refresher is typically better.
This is kind of ok on a DPS Mars and close to worthless if your team doesn’t need the extra DPS. Going for utility and control is going to be preferable, unless you know your team is going to have damage problems and you will need to contribute more physical damage to win the game with a Vlads+Desolator build. In pubs this is probably a tier higher.
We are not exactly sure what this does and who would want it. It does line up enemies faster for Skewer and sometimes will allow extra targets to be caught in Reverse Polarity AoE, but this is so unreliable, situational and does nothing otherwise, it is not even worth considering. We are serious—if you have gold to spare Moonshard on utility Magnus is going to be better.
Minus armor effects are great and we love them, but this doesn’t do much for the hero in most games. Bristleback really needs all the survivability items and then auras to stay relevant in terms of DPS and being able to frontline—the hero is surprisingly easy to blow up once enemy gets any source of Break.
First?
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*2k Aghanim Tier List
Time for a bunch of whiners complaining that their wisp mid wasnt ranked here WHEN ITS BEING SAVED FOR ANOTHER LIST.
Magnus aghanim can be used to stale the Game if you are forced hg.
Bird ags is pretty good imo
is this classification like ONE PUNCH MAN heroes classes? xD
Slardar tier S, Mars tier D. Ok, no comments
Centaur not tier S? If having 40% dmg reduction is not S tier in utility, then I don't think anything else should be. Just watch a pro dota game to see the difference in impact between Pango and cent Aghs. As far as magnus goes, his aghs is not utility but rather DPS, and is strictly an option for magic dmg mid magnus with octarinee and sangekaya (it is shit, but that is its purpose).
no veno, lulw
lol kek 4eburek
Wyvern gives insane amounts of slow to enemy team, while giving easy chases for her own team.
Aghs only makes it harder to enemies to disengage, rendering it almost impossible even for am without bkb.
Yet she's not even on the list.
Not to mention the DPS-core build that actualkly works and was not mentioned here or in previous article.
Le sigh.
What the fuck is with describing bonuses as cute? Amateur writing.
its cute because the damage on caustic finale is so low that it tickles
Ok... Socks we're clearly in disagreement about how scepters are used & what they change/bring to the game.
Tidehunter is a mid counter to a lot of heroes - notably ember (moreso than MK) and any ranged hero that can't lock you down or escape ; you RUSH Aghs. You get blight/soulring/phase/lifesteal & get an AGHS.
It's 7s cooldown 40% slow with 2200 range that reduces armor by 12 with the talent.
The Aghs itself makes the hero relevant, try comparing gush with Dragon Slave just to see what I mean. It's also way better than desolator for barely 700g more. The problem with dps tide is that retards in lower MMR run him with desolator and not much else.
Once again the problem is that you've divided them into "utility" and "dps cores" -- a Tidehunter deals more damage than most heroes in the game throughout the entire game and moreso when he hits lvl 25. So damn much that SNG/Hippos/Aachen/Chaos were first phase banning or picking it in several games of the qualifier for Starladder. I'd know I was playing against them & they were banning it against us.
It's not just some cheese... Tide is now a serious damage hero and building Greaves/Blink/Pipe hinders him if anything ; being a one time ravage isn't a horse you bet on, however sustainable crazy amounts of physical and magical damage is.
And dude WR in "utility" and "Does little for DPS WR"? No one gives a damn about the evasion, unless you're really far ahead. It's a 2 charge max movespeed AoE slow with invis that makes her impossible to CATCH (not kill), it's huge on core WR.
We clearly don't play at the same MMR man. No considerations should be given to gameplay below 5k5-6k because they don't really play Dota2... they play PvE WoW against creeps each game yet still can't stack or farm the enemy side of the map - EVEN WITH VISION AND ALL SMOKES USED (yes you count them & the timer) ; oh wait ! They don't smoke...
"No considerations should be given to gameplay below 5k5-6k". The majority of Dota players are below these ranks, dotabuff is a site to see how to become better, and not giving advice to people at low ranks wanting to improve is exremely dumb. Playing on your own with divine tactics doesn't increase your mmr, playing strong heroes that work in your bracket does.
These lists are all over the place, Greg. The point of my remark comes across as crude but more than anything else it's about being up to par with current information & knowledge which isn't something that lower ranks usually do.
In your bracket Clinkz is god -- just rush medaillon/treads & get scepter right away. Even if you're as slow as 20m it's plenty to steamroll the game with 4x skeletons.
Just get a fast gem & learn to place yourself to have burning army summons on top of cliffs & you don't even need wards.
Also try Tide mid against any melee but MK - wins against most ranged heroes too. Just max anchor smash & gush with a single level in Kraken shell.
Gotta disagree about the Windranger. Yeah, 20 seconds. But that's only possible if you chain 3 of them together, at which point you have to wait another almost 30 seconds to do it again. Clearly that's not awful, but you have to spend 4200 gold to get to that point, and you aren't rushing this item anymore. Maelstrom and I still firmly believe in blink are better options, and even then I'm still not against a crit stick or bloodthorn before aghs.
This aghs does indeed let Wind slowly whittle down an enemy in relative safety in the same way that a bristle or necro or viper can, but without the added benefits the rest of those heroes enjoy, or even the ability to apply damage to more than one hero. Viper doesn't even need to keep attacking the target to continue applying damage.
I'm going full tilt here and I know it, but it's because a) I love this hero and really want her to be good again and b) I want to pull at the threads a little to get a better understanding of what it is about this aghs that can't be done elsewhere. I mean, even with this aghs (and talents) wind is still a baby version of clinkz sans aghs.
Maybe a better question to ask is what surrounding items do you see that would make a good case for picking wind with the intention of getting the aghs? Are we talking your offlane auras? Crowd control euls and rods and force staffs? Hexes and silences?
EDIT: I see the potential for skipping blink with the aghs as it does give you a pretty mean movespeed buff, but that still puts it in B tier for me
I actually agree with the points you made Yar, just the bit I quoted that triggered me for some reason lmao.
slardar S ?? tell me ur agha slarkar winlate
where are the other hero?
magnus and mars aghs are pointless yes i agree, but bristleback agh in D class is a big no for me
If only Magnus had his old Aghs... Best ever in the game - SSS tier.
God of Rebuke already does almost 1k damage late game with the crit talent in an AOE with just vlads, deso, bkb. Throwing in the aghs would possibly make him even more ridiculous than level 25 Brew (with crit talent).
Pango aghs still feels weird to me cause I usually build him for utility.
axe aghs is crazy. Imagine hitting 2 heroes and a wave of creeps. He gets somethig close to 40% additional movement. And with 25 talent, It becomes a crazy ass nuke. It kills supports like they were neuts. Usually it will force them to euls or nuke a creep if ever. Which is 1 utility or nuke less in clash.
I think you're way underrating nightstalker aghs tbh. 0.6s stun is not negligible, and the AOE is considerably large. With a bottle + clarities nightstalker can actually flashfarm, not to mention 50% on almost every enemy in teamfights is very powerful in the early game. If you can get it by around the 15-17 minute mark, that's a really good power spike that's not easy to deal with.
Nightstalker aghs is good. He is tanky enough that he can spam it in the middle of the fight.
They forgot to mention that bristles Agh's allow him to use Nasal Goo without a target, allowing him to stay at max at charges of his ulti at all times
in pubs Mars aghs is S tier aghs, ppl just dont realize they fucking die in 3 seconds
Theres just no way you rank slardar higher than puck, 2k list indeed
u guys seems ready to kill each other
a lot of toxic comment, lucky that kawaisocks already immune to Immortal below rank trashtalk
i need Aghs utility that can stop my mom from yelling at me
WHEN I PLAY DOTO
my mom has lv 99 Ulti Scream of Pain btw
and lv 200 Sonic Wave
- Can hit units up to 13500000 range away (travel distance + end radius).
- Fully affects couriers.
ya even courier from Amazon cant deliver item to me