AC is good, Vlads can be good depends on the game
sb>radi
i even sometimes buying shivas instead of aghanim
Build anything on Doom, the hero can find farm anywhere so you can do all kinds of different things. Sadly, I have not had great luck with doom recently or with axe and have dropped about 5% win rate on both of these :(
Why doom need shiva? Because his 2nd skill and Phase boot is enough to chase the enemy. And also 2nd skill give dps to nearby enemy. right?
Look at my match doom (random)
i have a good farm at early game, this make me fat in late game :D
more armor, -ms -as and a nice aoe dmg
http://dotabuff.com/matches/403050563
http://dotabuff.com/matches/407816540
worked pretty good here
^
Why use shiva -_-. Please explain to me
Edit:
^ Lift
i think doom is very good at support, because it can steal ability from creeps. But i like to pick packleader aura to easily dominate farming
Full disclosure, I suck with doom. Terrible win rate and kdr. That said, doom is a very unique hero because he is super fragile early, doesn't have the abilities of a support, and doesn't have good dmg until he gets fed. He also has amazing jungle abilities and with the right creep abilities can do some crazy stuff. At 6 if you gank with doom and either the stomp creep ability or the net it's an easy kill. Doom can hard carry, semi carry, or go durable support.
I like to go 1 tango and ring of bas and go jungle off the bat. Buy a stout shield and quel blade next. Quel might be a waste of gold idk. But with those three items you can non stop jungle til you get AC. Another great item on him is actually mek. I don't midas on him, though pretty much everyone else does, but I dislike delaying my core for a few extra lvls. Maybe I'm doing it wrong because doom has snowball potential. Vladimirs is ok, will stack well with AC but early on your regen comes from hellfire not lifesteal aura. I would probably skip it unless you have other strong melee who will benefit.
Another debatable item is vanguard. I usually already have the shield, some more hp and regen is really good, and a lot of doom's farm comes from his devour and hellfire so I'm not strictly against it like I am for a lot of other carries because it doesn't totally neuter your farm like if you got it on say viper or dragon knight. I often will get it if other team has a lot of right click.
I don't like aghs. Think it's overkill, most heroes when doomed will try and run away, which kills the duration anyway. I'm not a fan of radiance either. Radiance to me is a farm item (unless you're on a image pushing hero) kind of like battlefury. If you don't get it as your first core it's not as useful and going boots then radiance gives you nothing to build in between and doesn't help your fragileness at all.
Shivas is a nice item in general, gives you the armor of ac with a great aoe dmg/slow, stacks nice with hellfire. Int is never bad on doom either though I don't usually have mana issues mid game, but with shivas and hellfire you can pretty much never have to go back to fountain.
Then why mek? u said that doom doesn't need heal, It heal come from 2nd skill and maybe unholy aura (creeps)
that's very good to doom for jungling, as long the enemy not sweep the jungle. But i agreed with scepter point, it's overkill and wasting money since 15 seconds duration is very painful to the victim (muted item, silence all skill passive/active). I will prefer to SB or Halberd.
Edit:
Why dont we change shiva to radiance? it can increase base damage, and also give dps damage, otherside i dont need much mana for doom, Ulti is used for troublemaker hero (darkseer, kotl, io, enchantress any support hero that very annoying)
it's 2nd skill is use low mana (65 or 75)
Then we use 3rd skill for steal kill from other teammates right?
phase lothar sy shiva/abyssal/+wolf, thats if u wanna be useful, but u can also buy useless stuf like agha and be a walking ulti and thats it
its not about mana, its good vs rightclickers+tons of minus armor like ta with deso
its also gives you aoe slow and -40attackspeed to enemies
Yeah i got it, AC then Shiva. Very annoying aura -_-
Can i add radiance after 2 items above? :D (AoE damage lover)
Support Doom isn't better than carry Doom. Both have their place in the game and should be used accordingly not as a one size fits all.
Sceptre is a good item depending on the heroes you play against and should never be ruled out as a useless item.
Statistically everything about support doom screams a loss, why would you pick a support doom when you have proper supports to turn to. Support doom is shit, Utility Doom and Carry Doom are probably the two most effective ways to play the hero.
Statistics tell me that you are more likely to lose as a support Doom than a carry doom
Statistics tell me that you are more likely to win with a sceptre than a shadow blade
Statistics also tell me that
My Doom
Doom 137 50.36% 3.53
>
Your Doom
Doom 30 46.67% 2.23
You might want to lift your stats a little on Doom before making statements like such.
not my fault teammates cant benefit from aggressive doom ganging since lvl 2 its same with my axe and other junglers fuckin tards everywhere
Doom is simultaneously a very simple and yet extremely complex and situational hero. He is capable of producing incredible farm, and yet none of his skills have synergy with one another.
While it is great to give advice, please note that there is absolutely no "best" way to play doom. It is based on your line up of players and team composition, as well as how willing players are to work together.
Sometimes carry doom is best, sometimes support doom is best, and often a hybrid will occur.
@Badger- the point of support doom is that he can acquire many support items quickly. A support doom can get a mek, sheep, orchid significantly faster than other supports. That does not make it "right or wrong". Thats the the potential reason.
As stated in my first post.
"Build anything on Doom, the hero can find farm anywhere so you can do all kinds of different things"
main point behind support doom on pubs is this your teammates are fuckin trash and you have to acquire as much advantage and space as fast as u can
I mention mek because it provides armor and hp regen, stats and armor and is a really good alternative to vanguard and also helps team. I go mek all the time on viper after boots. It's similar concept for doom, get some much needed armor and hp regen. And doom farms fast, he can get mek online in a hurry and go kill towers with the team for more gold.
I have 2 Doom builds
Hard Carry: Rush Radiance > Power Treads or Phase Boots (depends on lineup) > AC > Heart > Abyssal > Whatever else I need (Gem, TP, Dust, etc.)
Doom is best used as a walking aura machine. I usually just go mek/shivas and then start pushing down towers. He's really hard to kill in a team fight due to all that extra armor and regen and when you go 5-man with Doom early enough, the enemy team has a lot of difficulty bursting you down especially if their lineup is well-equipped to pick-offs but not team fights.
http://dotabuff.com/matches/409841538
In this game we lost the early game and their anti-mage got farmed pretty fast, (he was level 14 at one point while I was 8 and Juggernaut was 11) and so while it looked like we would lose the game, we just started 5-manning, putting down wards everywhere and I bought a gem to make sure Nyx can't come out of nowhere and surprise us. Eventually we had enough items and were just way too strong in team fights (especially since the enemy team kept trying to burst me even though I was the tankiest with a hood)
I like the mek shivas idea. Going hard carry has been failing for me lately (like ac/radiance usually stuff). What about throwing a drums on him too or is that overkill/waste of a slot?
^
a hard carry doom requires a 4-5 min midas and safe lane protected solo farm to be maximally effective.
I've seen Doom's go drums before but I think it's kind of pointless as he's not designed to do any major damage if he's going to be a supporting aura build. I'd rather he put the money into mek than drums since both cost approximately the same anyway. Doom doesn't need much items to be effective and I'd rather someone with better late-game transition do most of the farming than Doom anyway.
"Doom is best used as a walking aura machine." i like this one, his 1st skill can be support aura (+ armor or AS or damage) just look for ur line up :D
4-5 min midas is impossible jungling. Your devor cooldown starts at a min and your auto attack/hellfire dmg sucks, it's impossible to farm it that fast. Go play bots you'll see. 7-8 mins is the target, then if I'm going mek I want that and boots around 12.
Anyway I played a few doom games over the weekend, brought my win rate up from abysmall to below average lol. But I'm loving shivas on him, really messes with right clickers and stacked with ac later you have ~40 armor making you retarded strong. Also the slowing use ability is really useful. Doom relies on hellfire + phase boots speed but other fast heroes can still out run you so shivas lets you gank sometimes. If we don't have a lot of carry or a hard carry I've been going midas, mek, shivas, ac. Otherwise I go mek then shivas (like in my game with medusa and sk/storm spirit). Going mek first lets you help push towers, get your carries more farm, but doesn't snowball you quite as well.
I've also changed up my starting items for jungle. Now I go tango, quel blade, stout shield. First buy is ring of bas. I used to go bas first and then buy shield but your spell cooldowns are so long at the beginning you just sit there whacking creeps and it takes forever to kill them and you take a ton of dmg. Shield and quel dramatically increase your dmg and reduce dmg taken. By the time you get a couple levels and are using spells frequently the bas will have arrived via courier. I did a little practice using both setups and the difference between them is very marginal (probably depends more on your creep spawns than items) but I prefer quel/shield first now.
I found a guide that suggested soul ring over basilius and was wondering what everyone thought of that. Soul ring guarantees mana for hellfire, adds 3 hp regen vs some dmg and armor and less mana regen. Worth it? It also costs more and isn't an aura for your team and can't be turned into vlads later (if you're into vlads). I'm thinking no, but never tried it.
i used to hvae 60% winrate on doom, so sucky after a while
but the most suitable probably vlads(+5 armor), drums, cuirass and wolf pack devour, you can tarras/bkb after that
with this you have 4 aura and have sufficient armor + EHP to be a distraction in teamfight
you need mana regen so shivas cover you that but for the first you can get soul ring
with this you can devour as many small creep as you can with regen from 2nd skill
midas is good, but i just don't like it somehow,
I saw the potential in him as offlane heroes
and yesterday Bulldog just proven it that he was good
bad build1: midas, vanguard, radiance
bad build2: agha, refresher
^both those builds suck shit as you said, they really need to fix the stupid guides
ikr it fking pissed me off when someone picked doom,
and i have to solo offlane and in the end doom built those thing
Doom's build is completely dependent on the team he is playing with.
I think a fast midas is very viable, but if he is getting safe lane carry farm he probably needs to go for a carry build. However I once saw a safe lane tri lane doom with pugna mid and timber off lane go for a fast midas --> mek and just 5 man obliterate towers.
If you really want a vanguard, consider getting mek or vlads instead.
If you really want an Ags... dont get an ags till much later or never.
Drums seem to be best for a fighting doom going mek support aura build.
I personally really like midas -> phase/treads -> mek/vlads -> and then pick one: shadowblade/radiance/Drums -> Sycthe/Assault/shivas. I think mek suits doom well, and allows the supports to get force staffs/pipe/drums, which improves their survival and relieves stress from their warding.
i dont know if you've actually played doom before but getting midas, boots into mek is fucking terrible
you don't have the mana to support that at all even if you have either bottle or basi
or maybe you just don't like casting spells or something
1. GET MIDAS
2. Get MOM
3. KILL PEOPLE
4. GET RAPIER IN 19 MINUTE
5. KILL MORE PEOPLE
6. GET MORE RAPIERS
7. http://dotabuff.com/matches/149343484
8. PROFIT
This is best build in my opinion.Also alot of pros do same or with a litle differences.
Get midas,phase,sb,ac,hot/shiva/basher/s&y depends on game..but this 3-4 first items are core. gl
Carry #1 - Midas/Phase/Shadowblade/Assault Cuirass/Sange & Yasha/ + any item of choice
Carry #2 - Midas/Phase/Radiance/Shadowblade/Sceptre/Assault Cuirass/Shiva's Guard
Durable - Treads/Drums/Vladamirs'/Sceptre/Shivas' Guard/Assault Cuirass/Heart
Utility - Phase/Drums/Vladamirs'/Sceptre/Shivas' Gaurd/Refresher
Support - Mekanism/Mana boots/Drums/Sceptre/Refresher/Shivas' Guard
These are some of the builds that I do/have done but you can do almost anything on the hero.
Examples:
Fast headress actually allows you to jungle more effectively http://dotabuff.com/matches/417218602
More support types of builds http://dotabuff.com/matches/412075894
Carry builds http://dotabuff.com/matches/395101867
Carry builds again http://dotabuff.com/matches/362703392
Carry #1 - Midas/Phase/Shadowblade/Assault Cuirass/Sange & Yasha/ + any item of choice
Its one of the most effective builds you can make as a carry doom.
Depends on what role you want to play I guess. Personally I prefer semi-carry Doom. Don't sacrifice being able to gang mid game just to afk farm on Doom. Not worth it most of the time imo. personally I don't like Scepter on Doom. Too expensive when you can swap it for item like Halberd or BKB which benefits Doom more.
Basically core items I feel should be phase boots, Drums (good stats plus to help with your pitiable mana pool)
Another item to consider early on is Soul Ring
If your team seems to be able to get gangs after gangs and your team have another carry (ie it's a dual core or tri core lineup) go items like Offering, Mek (if your team doesn't have any hero suited to get it), SnY, Halberd or even Shadow Blade. Just get 1 or 2 of these then move on to your core items like Heart, Assault, Shivas. Personally I had a game on doom with Heart, Assault, Shivas, Halberd and we just ran into the fountain. With your second skill you would kill the heroes before fountain kills you (http://dotabuff.com/matches/328524650)
Another core thing about doom is the creep skills. If you go mana/supp build get skills like troll trap (my fav) or centaur stun (much harder to land without another initiator), other good skills are ice armor (MLG columbus EE's Doom), but my personal favourite is alpha wolf's aura. It's basically nearly a free Deadalus on Doom and it boosts your team's damage as well. Hence Doom doesn't need to build damage items like Deadalus.
Midas is very situational but it would mean that your Doom would most probably be farming till about the 15-20 min mark for him to be effective in team fights.
Overall Doom is a very versatile Hero. And he can farm very easily as well as get kills (more gold). imagine if you have a Bounty Hunter :P
Suggestion:
Phase/Drums is almost the same cost as treads/sange which will give you durability and the ability to switch treads when in need of some int.
No to the soul ring as you can get Basi and Ring of Reg for that same cost which can be turned into vlads later (so saves selling)
Troll - Good trap
Bird - Gif's armor (something early game doom needs, also good for stack/tornadoing camps)
Wolf - Good damage aura
Satyr - People never get this but cheap, annoying, long range wave, and regen aura
Would avoid Ursa's and Cents as the stun is not reliable and given the above options why would you. Cent is ok as it gives the aura and if you do get caught a stun may be handy
When I doom jungle carry I go into the lane at 5-6 with a troll net and ult, get a kill, farm more, go kill again when ult CD, push towers with the trolls summons.
I would prefer phase boots over tread because of the big ass of Doom. easily blocked. And i prefer drums + halberd combination over SnY + Phase combo. You are so much tankier.
Soul ring was just as a emergency mana pool. Lots of times I have seen people go troll trap and lv death and find out they have no mana to cast doom. Doom farms so fast anyways. That few hundred gold wouldn't matter much. And it's very situational (thus suggestion)
Satry regen is one of the best early powers to have for farming, the ogre frost armor is awesome too. But I actually like when my first camp is those centuars. You can devour the big one and kill the little one easily to clear the camp. Satyr camp, bird camp, all harder to clear at lvl 1.
This is a build that cannot be handled in lower-tier games:
1.) midas
2.) phase boots
3.) shadow blade
4.) shivas
5.) Whatever you think you need after this... heart, abyssal blade, AC, BKB, etc. I prefer to heart + AC most of the time.
It works as follows: Every time doom is up, shadow blade into a retard newbie farming alone. If he has any kind of disable or get away, use doom, hit w, use shivas, hit e, click him, hit phase boots, right click him. The guy is dead. You can often kill people without Doom if they have no disable/escape.
Also, get alpha wolf crit/damage aura sooner rather than later (usually).
GL.
If you're in a more serious game (meaning the jungle is more dangerous and your game is at a higher risk of concluding in 20 minutes), skipping Midas and going straight for vlads is pretty good. From there, you can still do much of the same build (just with vlads replacing midas). Or you can insert vlads in the middle of phase/lothars in the item progression above.
I'll also add that I don't like aghs in general for Doom, but it is actually very powerful in some situations. People focus on that one dumb aspect of not ticking down - that isn't what makes aghs good at times. It increases the damage of doom by like 2x. Damages:
30/50/70 (50/80/110*)
I used to be a "never aghs" kind of guy until I played weaver against a doom. He would e my linkens and doom me in team fights. He'd chase me around until I had like half hp then return to dishing out damage in the team fight. Great... I just died from 800 damage from a single ult (while being able to literally do nothing). The aghs takes Dooms before-reduction total from 1050 to 1760... WITHOUT any of the halting of the countdown. Every second you hang around, that adds another 110 damage. You'll most likely halt at least 2 or 3 seconds, bringing the grand total to over 2000 damage.
The reason I say this is situational is that the amount of damage expressed by the spell on a single target can be OVERKILL compared to regular doom. But I'd say it's well worth it against a handful of very annoying pieces of shit heroes like Slark/Weaver. Or if you're against a team that put all their eggs in one farm basket (e.g. against a single PA or morph), then hell, get aghs. You win the game automatically.
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Well i want to ask about my other favorite hero (Doom) :D
Many people said that Doom need Scepter for a longer duration of his ulti
But the point here Doom is cons with his armor (very low, weak)
Then, based by suggested item (luxury)
I prefer to AC, then Radiance. And so with packleader aura
And also, is doom is good with Vladmir? (Increase own creep to push tower)
Is that good built?