General DiscussionBounty game

watching it

alchemist skill/item-build explains this game.

I fucked it up when i tried to kill lich, he was offlaning against alch io and he got 3 or 4 kills, so i tried to stop him from snowballing, the thing is that the guy was lvl 11 when i was lvl 8 and he had a mek and frost armor, so i didnt get the kill :/

Plus i am miscalculating my invis duration, i think i tried to used to burst lich faster and i didnt had it to escape so i just died.

i dont want to blame my team mates because i really could have carried this game, my first death was pretty bad i think, probably my biggest problem in this game.

i will give my input
-convert into poor man's shield it is worth the gold
-buy a magic wand and skip the bottle
-buy a poison orb and then you only need 1 point into crit
-against that team you should have gone BKB after drums, deso is good and all but you are useless when you have to play defensive

onto actual gameplay
-keep yourself off the map as much as possible it helps when you start to gank because they stop keeping track of you because of how rare you pop up
-you had a really easy lane (warlock support with very late sentries) take that advantage down bottom lane sooner (pretty much once you hit lv 6)
-take more risks kills for you are much bigger than kills for them
-defensive play does not work for BH

there where small random mistakes but those happen in even the best of games

Thx for helping sampson.

One thing, i like to get bottle because i can keep myself on the map for more time, so i dont need to go back to the fountain, how would i get that regen without bottle ?

Should i always max shuriken first ? i like to put only 2 points into shuriken but i am not sure now.

1e
2w
3e
4q
5q
6r
7q
8q
9e
10e
11r

I sometimes change it up a little in the early stages if I think I can snag a kill on noob before lv 6. Extra points into e helps you managing your mana better and since you are not going dmg items first it helps with your burst dmg

I always buy the poison orb but sell it later in the game which is why you dont see it in m inventory at the end of the games

thanks for all the info.

Another question, even if our team is behind and even if i dont have the burst to kill anyone should i always keep roaming ?

Should i in any situation stop and try to farm some creeps ?

I guess Sampon's skill build is totally wrong. Why would you max your highest burst damage spell and the only real way of disable last? Also you get the most mana/damage ratio on Shrunken at level 2. I generally go with e-w-q-q-e-r-w-w-w-e/q-r-e/q-e/q-e/q..... and I guess I'm very successful with it. But I don't know it also depends on how you play the hero.

you should get your q only to lvl 2 cause otherwise you wont have the mana to support it

Sam that is what i did this game i think.

Atum that its what i usually do too.

Sam, I have played around with it and while 2 points into shuriken is the best for dmg to mana ratio I have found that that little bit of dmg can make or break a fight

55 base starting dmg (80 dmg around lv 6ish)

1 point into W 82.5 (120)
4 points into W 123.75 (180)

1 point into E 30
4 points into E 120

the crit scales better into the late game but during the early game the flat dmg from the invis is better. Keep in mind I will change my build around if I have a really good early game and get a good deal of gold (which should not happen that early vs a good team). The slow is covered for with the poison orb

Anyway i am going to try your build sampson.

Invis costs mana, passive doesn't. Also it reduces the CD from 12 to 6 which is the most important thing because Jinada is the spell that actually allows you to chase people., not invis. It gives you easier kills. But yeah I agree invis is way safer in most situations and can give a higher burst at times.

I am not sure how it works for other people but for my playstyle it seems to work. Key items for the build are

-poor man's shield
-poison orb
-phase
-drums
-tp scrolls for alot of rotations

pretty much after those items just get whatever is needed for the match

Yes I already said. It depends on how you play the hero. Item builds are the same though.

Yup the CD is the most important aspect of it but the problem is that if you can not kill them in a short window you will not get the kill unless they are extremely out of position or their teammates hate them and dont buy TP scrolls. And yes the Invis does cost mana but the way I play BH involves making alot of rotations and that extra time it gives you in stealth adds up to alot of mana saved. I am not saying this is the best BH build but I do think it is the best build for how I play BH (this has changed over time)

http://dotabuff.com/matches/468697095

In this game i did follow your build sampson, now i am pretty sure that your item build is the one to get but i am still not sure about skill build, i maxed shuriken first but i am not sure if it was worth it.

Anyway i felt like getting a bottle, i really dont know how to play this hero without bottle, one nuke and my hp is at half already.

just listen to Sampson lol,
he knows what he's doing
if you want longer reply, here take my thread
http://dotabuff.com/topics/2013-12-07-bounty-hunter-help

I am thinking on maxing shuriken AND jinada and leaving invis at 2, i am getting a bottle anyway so the mana isnt going to be a problem.

Anyway for what i see skill build is really situational on bounty, plus on this kind of low mmr, lane isnt a problem at all ( 2 games on a row that i get a kill on a support).

my mistake I thought magic wand was a given..........yea make sure you have a magic wand or else you will have mana/health issues

-buy boots before you buy poison orb
-harass more when people do not buy stout shields OR sentries (if for some odd reason they do not buy any of these you can 1v2 them easy)
-make more rotations you sat around at lv 6 for way too long
-orchid is a much better pick than deso against that team

*midway thru game will add more

Actually i was going to rush a bkb this game, but when i had the money to get bkb we already had won the game anyway.

From what I notice is you tend to use bottle as a crutch to fall back on after making really poor choices.

-For example you keep trying to 1v1 the orge mage (high base dmg high armor and high base health) no matter what items you buy you should get him in a 2v1 and reap the track loot.

-pick up magic wand sooner, the earlier you get it the stronger it is and the later the game goes the weaker the wand gets

-if the enemy team does not buy any detection in the game that either means
A this is their first time playing dota
B you are not big enough of a threat to waste the gold
If they where clueless enough to not start with sentries against a offlane BH you want them to be sending sentries after the first wave because of how annoying you are.

-rotation rotation rotation I can not stress this enough. Alot of times you where trying for 1v1 pick offs instead of going for team gangbangs. Track gives bonus gold to your allies, only focusing on 1v1 kills is not using track to it's full potential.

Stop giving away your location on the all the time when you are off the map your opponents farm goes down because they can not push in to get last hits

All in all you really did not follow the build much past lv 4 and went back to what you usually do so I dunno what so say........

For that lineup I believe lockdown on weaver/puck(they where both kinda awful but I am saying this for future reference if they ARE good) is the key to winning and while BKB a necessary item I feel that in PUBS you need to limit them from snowballing

obviously in a organized team situation the item choices could change

"-For example you keep trying to 1v1 the ogre mage (high base dmg high armor and high base health) no matter what items you buy you should get him in a 2v1 and reap the track loot. "

This is probably my biggest mistake, i should stop trying to get solo kills. That ogre magi was strong as fuck.

Another thing is that in a lot of early fights i feel like using track its the only thing that i can do without losing almost my entire hp or getting killed, i really dont like to feel useless so i try to at least being annoying to the supports, usually i eat some nukes and that its why i like to have a bottle.

"From what I notice is you tend to use bottle as a crutch to fall back on after making really poor choices."

Yep.

Anyway sampson again thanks for the help, you are helping a lot.

Understand how powerful track 20% movement speed to your whole team is HUGE.

bottle is 650 gold for 0 stats, you can somewhat justify buying a bottle if you have a invoker mid. 400 health 210 mana over 9 seconds is not all that great unless you are getting runes and even then when I play BH I am strapped for item slots
boots
venom
drums
wand
tp scroll
shield

personally I find all these items better than a bottle during the early stages of the game

i usually go E, W, Q, E, Q, R

i like to 2 lvls on E early on because you have more time invis than the skill cooldown... that is the one that suits my playstyle, but i do not have theory basis for that, but thats the way it goes for me.. i tried pretty much everything on, maxing jinada, maxing shuriken.. maxing jinada fits my playstyle so well, but i would not recommend it as you really cant chase that much with a lvl1 shuriken, you can't pick off those real low health enemies

maxing shuriken was a total fail for me, the nuke is good but its not spammable, so i didnt find a real use for it, neither I had enough mana to use it constantly, so yea for me jinada > shuriken

leave shuriken at 2 and max jinada and you'll be fine (i think), cuz you'd have enough dmg to pick off that low hp bastard and still have that low cd jinada which for me is so helpful

about the builds well that depends
i usually go for poor man's shield -> boots -> orb of venom -> phase -> drums -> orchid/desolator
when i want to troll i go for battlefury just for the lulz

usually the game doesn't go that far so you won't need DAT big item.. but BH is pretty versatile, if the game demands it you can go for a more carrish build, or you can go for that glass cannon.. that depends on the opposite team

but basically his core for me are PMS, Phase, orb, drums. the rest will highly depend on the other teams formation

about playstyle, i spam track a lot before and during teamfights, i harass a lot at lane stages, and if your opponents don't buy any sentry, then congratz you have oficially won your lane

but yea i get your struggle in teamfights.. i see BH as not a very teamfight oriented hero, he has no aoe shit and can't really achieve a high dps without getting too risky.. he shines mostly at little fights like 2v2, 3v3.. in TF what i do is mostly track everyone that i can, focusing on heroes that depend a lot on positioning (i.e pudge, mirana, etc), and going for jinada + shuriken on those squishy supports so i may perhaps 2~3hits them before they could actually do something to stop me

thats the way i play him, not claiming to be the right way or the way you should go, but thats the way i feel more comfortable with

Is urn viable? Maybe after boots, taking place over the magic wand. For a ganking Bh that mana regen+ the bonus hp & charges regen....

I stopped long time ago making it, so I can't remember how much impact it had in my games.

shuriken really should not be spammed anyway. Early game kills are so important to BH losing a little dmg on the nuke. Sure in a ideal world I would walk up to my opponent and nuke them down but realistically that does not happen with sentries, dust etc this can leave you open to being counter ganked and lose alot of map control and snowball potential. From personal experience I have lost too many kills on that little extra dmg from lv 2-4. The increase in mana forces you to be much more aware of your mana/wand charges BUT i feel like when the match gets tough (insane trilanes sentries everywhere and dust on every goddamn support) walking in and melee'n them is not always a option

Should've invited me Dorkly! :D

poof swish slash slash poof KA-CHING! YOUR BOUNTY IS MINE
that's how you play as him

purdy much, see ppl on map kill ppl on map win game

wow sampson actually being a not troll on this forum, im impressed.

When he is speaking about bounty it turns into something serious :D

when the thread isnt titled 'GG VOLVO WHY IS BH SO BROKEN PLZ FIX MM PLZ OR I MURDER EVERYONE' I tend to take it a bit more serious

^ Sooo...1 out of 50 threads?

yea they give me plenty of troll material

tip #1, pray that your allies aren't retards

^ that goes for every single hero out there, except by brood

I draw pictures on the map to draw the attention of my retarded teammates to come to me to kill people

i keep pinging the hero i want to kill like 80 times per minute, but even so the team decides its a way better idea to farm jungle a bit more, cause afk farm for 45 min isnt enough