"Tell me what other heroes can accidentally get a solo rampage?" Isn't that the idea of Dota that heroes have very various set of skills?
how did he not press buttons when trying to walk out?
Go see a doctor u might need glasses :3
Kunkka, sven, warlock, zeus, furion etc. can pretty much do the same.
He did not press any buttons until after getting the rampage.
Zero = Icefrog?
Anyway this rampage should go to dazzle, he actually caused it. My point is, the passive was buffed to be too strong. Zero actions solo rampage should not be possible on any hero.
No. Blunt all those other heroes require you to do something... at least auto attack (Sven/kunka) to get a rampage. This guy truly got a rampage completely on a passive ability.
^
buy some glasses. He did try to get out of the fountain as soon he got skieverd. Also necro op need nerf. pls remove aura he can kill people without pressing buttons, icefrog pls.
So to break down the numbers... While being skewered and stunned, BB passively released 9 quill bursts for a total of 1870 physical dmg to each hero except those that died sooner (still did not hit the dmg cap on this passive, last burst was 330 dmg), or a total of 9350 dmg.
I'm sure many of you have a lot of games where you did not do that much hero damage in the entire game. Of course it was reduced by armor, but not that much since Dazzle ulted everyone.
Bristleback has received 8 buffs in a row and people are finally starting to notice he is good. Although probably he was already OP in 6.78. I failed to see it at the time.
wow. dat bb dive..
I guess you can also do that with a spectre (2 or 3 hearts maybe) at a slower rate.
srsly why do you keep on?
There heroes who can dish out way more dmg, so why even bother coming with his damage? The moment itself was nice and its worth showing but making a thread with the tilte 'proves that hes op' is just retarded. In theory pudge, lc, slark and silencer are 'op' once a game would take like 8 hours or slark gets to hit pudge for 3min str8.
^No seriously, why do YOU keep on? To show people you can get even more retarded?
Read my name?
Lots of heroes can achieve very high dps... but BB passive would allow him to do exactly what happened in the clip at level 7 with no items... of course no one should be in the fountain at the point. I'm just saying this is an over the top example that illustrates just how strong that passive is... how much stronger than what other heroes have.
Again, dazzle causes the rampage... but a level 6 dazzle and a level 7 BB both with no items could do the same thing. Its something that happened on accident... not tediously orchestrated with 3 full minutes of cooperation like your slark hitting pudge example, or 8 hours of flesh strength and silencer kills.
LC duels are also giving away a bit too much dmg, but that like pudge and silencer, and slark too... are all at least rewarding successful actions. BB is doing massive dmg while stunned.
^
my point being that you cant take a situation like this and say that the hero is op. Since this is not a thing which happends in every match. If you want to show how OP something is, then do it with a normal example or multiple, which will happen in most of the matches.
If u were to say that warlocks old ulti was op as shit, i would agree since you see so many rampages caused by that shit even at lvl 6 its amazing.
@ sam: you lack brain, go eat shit.
It's not like there's no counter to BB. Just pick lion (or any hero with hex) or build a hex and kite him.
I agree that bristle is OP, can wreck a whole game solo if given 1 kill on the offlane. Necros/Bristle need nerf. And brood, just delete that hero after 25 min shes more off the map than on it...
my first match of an offlane brisstle back http://dotabuff.com/matches/466946157 ... yeah i agree he is very op
>Bristleback gets a lot of farm
>Gets 1 in a million moment in enemy fountain
>People claim hero is now over powered because of a video
I am really bad with him and i think i have 80 % winrate or something like that with him, i like to play him offlane.
but i still dont think he is op.
actually BB deserves this rampage as much as dazzle does, he DID PRESS SOME BUTTONS, to be exact (as it seems to me) he positioned himself facing fountain with his back on purpose, without that positioning he wouldn't do shit at all and die like any other hero. My point is, Relentless you're a smart dude, but it seems you're a bit buthurt over BB for some reason. To do this kind shit the hero still needs to be potioned properly.
It was funny how the RP+Skewer backfired,
but this is why some heroes' role called "Carry". Give him farm and he carries the team for the win.
Yesterday Bamboe with his Batrider pulled to the fountain an SF, who turned on his Satanic and killed whoever there was then walked away. Shit happens.
Magnus took care of BB positioning for him. Dazzle caused him to live and amped dmg. BB himself did nothing. No items were required, just shallow grave and levels of the passives.
Bristleback has received 8 buffs. I think they went a bit too far. But Icefrog tends to not make corrections until pros really notice a hero is too strong and start first picking him a ton. I expect BB will receive some sort of small nerf in the next balance patch. Take advantage of his strengths while you can and Enjoy!
Buffs in total have been
- quil spray instant trigger when damaged (used to be 1 sec delay)
- quil spray stacks for 14 seconds up from 10 seconds
- quil spray dmg cap from 200 up to 400
- warpath stacks duration 14 seconds up from 10 sec
- warpath max stack increased from 5 to 5/6/7
- base warpath dmg from 10/20/30 up to 20/25/30
- warpath stack dmg from 10/15/30 up to 20/25/30
- animation cast point for casts and attacks improved from 0.4 seconds to 0.3 seconds
BB did get 1 tiny nerf against certain abilities and diffusal blade, goo stacks can now be purged, but quil stacks still can't.
All combined its now possible for BB to do over 2000 physical dmg passively to all units in within 625 range of him in a few seconds with quils as the clip shows... The exact same situation used to cause only 1300 dmg to each unit.
His movespeed can now go up to 460 with treads, used to be 425
His attack dmg at level 6 used to be max + 50, now its + 100. Level 11, used to be max +90, now its max +150.
Bristleback was at 48.15% win for 6.78c, he is up to 51.34% win for 6.79c.... a small change. But the pro scene has exploded with quils. Bristleback was 5-10 win/loss for pro games in 6.78 (one of the least picked and least successful heroes). But is now at 106-103 win/loss for 6.79. And he may still be a bit undervalued.
Bristleback has always been somewhat clumsy to use because he does best in fights lasting over 10 seconds while many teams prefer fights to be decided in 3 to 5 seconds. But paired with a different set of heroes so that fights are drawn out the 14 second duration of quil stacks can make BB extremely powerful at a fairly early point in the game where items that let other heroes deal that level of dps just cannot be acquired.
I think he becomes particularly outstanding when trying to siege a tower and safely zone out defenders. Maybe you want to split push another lane, but are concerned that you will get hit by a 4 v 5 fight doing so. As quil stacks mount up on defenders they become very hesitant to try to burst down a BB in the front lines who maybe can't be killed and will deal a couple thousand dmg to them even if he is chain stunned.
I opened the thread with a question because I have for a long time thought of BB as a particularly weak and useless hero mostly because of what small and unimpressive use I had seen made of the hero. I was surprised to see pro teams picking him up in 6.79 as much as they have, but this clip really made the potential power of his passives stand out for me.
I have to concede that I was wrong before and bristleback really is a viable hero for the current meta-game in a number of situations and might even have been made a little too strong. Thanks to everyone who takes the time to disagree with me. Its much more fun than arguing against myself.
@Relentless
I'd say this is a bug, because tip says "when he takes 250 damage", which he does not. He keeps releasing quills while his health is ~1hp.
^You are right! Just tested blademail with grave and can reflect unlimited damage!
Edit: tested blademail + grave vs axe ulti and does not kill axe. Probably because of this part: "The killing blow removes all buffs from the target unit before killing it."
It's extremely difficult to do that without fountain unless you play against a team that doesn't know "hit him in the face, not his butt" and kept spamming shit on him when he had 1hp in grave, instead of waiting for it to be over and kill someone else in those 5 seconds.
Without Dazzle he'd have no chance of getting that rampage too. Grave is the most OP support skill in the game. It's similar to giving any hero an Abaddon ult (assuming people don't hit Abaddon after his ult activates), though they'll have less hp than aba at the end, but still get 5 seconds immunity to dash out their high DPS without fear of death.
Though it's especially great for Huskar, Undying, Axe (against certain heroes) and Bristleback. Huskar can always stay at max berserker's blood stacks, Undying can steal another up-to-20-strength, and bristleback does like in the video. If you're against an Ursa as Axe you could easier destroy the bear without dying yourself by activating blademai (alternatively also mask of madness for +30% damage taken) before berserker's call (usually Ursa's damage gets so high you'll die from it though, but with Dazzle's grave you'll be fine, but the bear won't be). Same for other heroes with huge damage like Sven and Legion Commander.
well if BB had more armor or evasion ... we would not take 250 dmg SO FAST
BB is far from OP
![[Lk].Zano](https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/b9/b98e01ce6ef4a5e926a44cdd1564d0e8e5fbfa36_full.jpg "[Lk].Zano")
You know Relentless, if you wanted to prove Bristle is OP, you had to put this video instead http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7GT_eBtIvL8
There, no Dazzle. You are welcome.
in the example that Relentless gave, the score of the 2 teams was 18-9. The radiant team obviously snowballed against the dire. The circumstance he highlighted is less likely to take place if the game was not so one sided
Bristle is op but not cus he can do fountain gimmicks. He's way to tanky, he's literally impossible to kill. Couple that with spammable high aoe dmg and he is a beast. He can dive so easily with goo, quills and the dmg reduction he gets since he can just run away from a tower and not die. He gets first ban every single captain's game. My win rate with him is 84% (albeit only 13 games) with kda over 4. I think they did go a little overboard. I kind of like his offensive capabilities, I would nerf his defense. 40% reduction when it's really easy to run from people is insane. Maybe tone down the quills a bit.
"This hero can get solo rampage when he gets pushed to enemy well by Magnus and Dazzle graves him, so OP" Yea not situtional at all, happens in almost every BB game
@there is no try:
I know its not easy for lower lvled players but next time you play against bb, try to position urself. When hes stunned don't just rightclick him, instead go to his front and kill him fast, you avoid quills and do alot more dmg. BB is not that hard to deal with.
@blunt, you don't need to patronize me with lower leveled player verbage, if you think bristle is easy to deal with you're just fooling yourself. Everyone knows you need to hit his front but stuns don't last that long, he can always turn himself around. He's easy to kill at like lvl 4 if you're lane has crystal maiden or shadow shaman in it, after that vs any smart bb it gets tough. Being op doesn't mean you have zero counters, everyone has counters.
Also I am not bitching about playing vs him I am using my play with him as an example. I'm crushing games with him in a limited sample. He is op. However it's not one specific thing, it's a combo meal of his extreme durability, high mobility, spammable snare, spammable aoe and high dmg buff at lvl 6. But like I said I'd tone down his tank before his dmg if I were doing it.
There is a reason he's being banned nearly every captain's mode.
^
i think you do not quite understand the difference between OP and strong.
Truly op is something like ES or slark, bristleback is a strong hero, but hes not op.
op is newb
5 heroes plus the fountain hitting bristle faster than a machine gun is not a normal game situation
otherwise they would not be in the fountain
all u have to really do in a normal game siutation is ignore bristle and this doesnt happen
I don't think this video is indicative at all of his "OP" quality. He had Dazzle grave him and the fountain was shooting in his back. That much dps to one sole hero is never going to happen under normal circumstances. And if it were happening in the middle of a teamfight, people would stop focusing down a grave'd hero and he'd lose quill stacks.
Besides, how much HP do you need to take that damage WITHOUT grave? That's at least, what, two or three Hearts?
^if srs my question is where are all those players with inflated winrate/rating due to bristle streak :o because just on dotabuff i saw at least 4 players that inflated their rating big time thanks to slark abuse
^Because most people don't actually know what to do against Slark. You need to 5 man push them. Get an early mek. And see if he can kill any of you. While a Bristleback can just run in and kill people.
Now I kinda think that dotabuff needs an option (if there's none yet) to see your performance against certain heroes. Don't think I've lost many games against bristle, the story is a bit different with slark I believe.
How the hell is earth spirit op? You actually consider earth spirit a better hero than bristle? Es' win rate is shit.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y_EvE9GLoaw
Tell me what other heroes can accidentally get a solo rampage?... literally doing nothing themselves (press zero buttons, zero mouseclicks)