+65 dmg is a big thing. I think it's needed tbh. She doesn't offer much apart from the big crit in a team fight. you need to farm, and you could maybe argue then to go for radiance, but that costs way more and is even less beneficial in terms of survivability. What would the alternatives be really? Attack speed isn't really needed if you going for a 1v1 build without battlefury as your blink gives you full attack speed. So you need to get dmg... crit? don't need it. it's more likely to mess up your chances of proccing your way stronger ult on top of that. Bkb is essential on her, but it doesn't give you the dmg. Perhaps a good build I guess could be a vanguard with sny transitioning into a mkb or butterfly. Otherwise, battlefury is still a good item on me.
The problem isn't so much the item as it is the hero. She just needs a tonne of farm and that just doesn't sit with the meta.
@ Gurin
It's a myth that PA needs damage items to do damage. She is better off getting things that help her survive/lock down opponents. Examples:
boots: phase boots (the damage synergies with her crit way too much to get PT or anything else)
survivability: drums/vanguard/bkb/AC/S&Y
damage: abyssal blade
avoid: MKB unless you need true strike, desolator, another crit, battle fury, radiance, divine rapier
As far as I'm concerned, AC is core on her. Attack speed is a boon to her crit since she doesn't attack very fast, and the minus armor helps your crits. You can crit for 700/800 with zero "attack damage items".
Don't listen to Gurin about BKB being essential. BKB is always situational - it just so happens that most situations need a BKB.
better stay at maelstorm than AC
i say it's not a core
if you can get something like mkb or basher that would be significantly better
in order probably
PMS->Phase->HoD->BKB->Abyssal->Satanic
these 5 items is more than enough for PA
@Yfay
Nope. You're talking like 3.7k mmr. The HoD is basically only "good" on PA for its ability to stack ancients for use in conjunction with her BF. Sure, if you can pull off a HoD + BF + stack and get that all uninterrupted, then BF and HoD are great. But that's all... rather ideal. Your build has HoD without BF which is just really bad :(
If you want a farming item, midas > BF + HoD for PA. She really benefits from attack speed after all. And it's several thousand gold cheaper, so your team doesn't get raped in the butthole while you farm.
@Vandal
The HoD allow you to regen a lot when u crit in fight thus allowing u to stay longer in fights.
The midas with the new price is just not worth it. You gain nothing appart from some attack speed and you're quite squishy early game.
The battlefury will allow her to stay longer in lane too. The ring of health is appreciated, and the void stone will allow you to spam ur dagger. (don't forget the +10 damage too)
Now about the attack speed vs true damage.
You can't rely on ur crit all the time. That's why you build damages.
If the team have a tanky hero, you can't just spend 30 sec hitting him with 500damages crit when you could 3shot him. A dead hero is a hero that won't hit you. That is pa suvavibility.
Buy your assault late game when you feel you start to be shut down to easily. Combine that with an upgrade of your HoD.
Btw, you'r bad with pa. 2.42kda is not a carry kda.
It's not terrible but an Armlet and Drums for the same price is WAY better for early game survivability and overall presence. Armlet gives very good DPS even on non-str heroes and also gives regen if you need some in lane. Components are cheap and easily built. And Drums is the best stat item in the game. After that if you feel the need you go for BKB or if you don't you can get a basher and hope for even more RNG.
from my experience (pubs only) going for bf only works if your team is winning game without you
Battlefury if you have a good support and you can take a decent amount of last hits, you can have it at around 11-20 mn, usually it's good when you have it a bit before 15mn. Perseverance give you good amount of regen to stay on lane if your supports don't give you extra regen.
PA doesn't need a lot of survability item as she has an eazy engage and escape, if you have to do boots and bkb first it means that your team is behind.
The best way to see if you can get battlefury is to see if you can buy perseverance at around 6mn, if you can't go for mask of madness and boots.
Drums, vlads is probably better, and yes you do need survability or even zeus can solo kill you.
if u need to outfarm shit go or need to clear some pushing for bf, otherwise don't. Its a very situational item.
IMO bfury is not the way to go, sure it hastens your farm by a lot but in team fights where positioning is either awkward or you are targeting someone down, the cleave is not effective.
Depends though if you have a team fight hero like dark seer, magnus or enigma which still requires a very good play to make it an effective item.
My choice of items should be drums, basher, assault and sometimes bkb depending on situation. (I'm a team playa :D)
depend, if u freefarm and gonna freefarm bf is good min 10 11, if there is action on ur lane armlet better
http://dotabuff.com/matches/340391824
listen to nova for PA suggestions and you might learn something
Situational. I usually get it if I have free farm, so I can free farm more, because I love money. The damage/hp regen helps. If things aren't going well a Phase/Hotd/PMS would be better.
Situational. If you can get it early and expect yourself to farm a lot, then yes. If you are fighting early, nope.
PA reminds me a ton of faceless void getting battlefury. If you plan to just afk farm then sure get it, but I generally like to come online a lot sooner. Personally I don't like PA as a carry pick though, I think there are a lot better options, Troll warlord, faceless, even anti mage depending.
pa doesn't necessarily need a bf to farm fast. bf also not so good in team fight or get kills
If you are noobs or mid-level players. get bf probably might help to get farm.
If you are PROS. in those quick-paced match, bf is bad. you don't get many chance to farm waves or jungle. you easily got ganked. and your teammates may need your presence in team fight from minute 5.
ya. so I will get bf on PA and Jugg and void everytime. I enjoy being noob.
I'd say situational. Get it if your team can create space for you to farm. But doesn't PA need it to instagib?
"Haven't read other comments"
I'd say no. I'm getting somewhat mad when I see people build PA with battlefury, mainly cause I think the hero is shit and needs to get online fast to have a presence in the game. PA doesn't scale well, even though you might think cause her ult does massive damage.
My best advice for you is to dont lower the chance of winning by picking PA, or go for items like bkb, sny, tango, mjollnir, or AC.
Often by the time you have farmed battlefury the game is over if your team aren't carrying you. PA is shutdown easily early on without items to help survivability and all that damage is useless when you are dead.
I always feel that drums are a high price to justify on PA. I'd consider going Bracer + Wraith for 1010G and basically the same attributes as a drum but an extra 3 damage and no aura.
If you need the mana you could consider an upgrade to Aquila and have spent 1510G and have a decent bit of extra damage from those items. Pushing a bit too close to the price of a drum there though. Can be disassembled for use in a vlads which is a plus point.
I don't feel like pa is an afk farmer in the way void and anti mage can be. Her strength is her mobility in fights with her blink, I feel like she should be farming lanes, let support soften them up and disable then blink to them to get the kill. The only games pa ever wins vs me are like this. Cus unlike void and am she is quite good in lane early. Her burst at lvl 3-4 is pretty decent with dagger and her blink.
as a pa player myself ill give you this advice
pa does benefit from bf however that doesnt mean bf is absolutely core on her. Typically if you can farm it in 15 mins it is worth picking. If not then go straight for stats(drum, aquila, bracers etc) and after stats and PT farm a basher. IMO basher is better because it gives you some dmg and the stun so you can contribute faster to the fights. Usually in low lvl matches you wont manage to farm BF from various reasons. And most of the time if you manage to get it ut is too late. In pubs as a hard carry you need to be online asap.
Maybe if I got absolute free farm, could get it in 10 minutes and I may be against many units late game...
However, that's generally not going to be the case since nukers can take you down fairly quickly, I usually like to get Phase, Hotd and BKB first into a Basher MKB sort of thing.
Good about BF:
Lets you farm more, clear waves quicker, ring of hp good for laning, mana regen is nice.
Bad:
Not game-changing, you need time for it to pay off. If you are behind, you are risking it. The hero is bad in general.
@10, I don't think it's possible to get 4350 gold in 10 mins without downing several towers. I don't think there's even mathematically that much gold available in the creep waves that spawn in 10 mins.
If you don't miss a single last hit, by 10 minutes you will have 80 creep kills, which averages at 45 gold per creep, which means 3600 gold.
That doesn't take into account catapults, nor gold earned per second. Which is 1 per .6s, which averages 100 gold per minute, and that is 1000 gold. There will be 3 catapults i think, so that's 220 gold more. So by 10 minutes without killing any hero, or downing any tower, it's possible to get 4820 gold.
So the maximum you can get in lane last hits is 83, if i'm not forgetting anything.
Oh ok so it is technically possible. Still I never seen anyone actually farm a 10 min battlefury without multiple kills. ~15 is about the fastest I think I've seen done.
I think the main problem with Battlefury is that it encourages a passive playstyle early, which I think is absolutely wrong. PA can do so much early game; even if you don't believe that she does much damage without items (which is wrong, but whatever), her low cooldown slow means she can set up a stun/nuke and pick off heroes in a way that most other carries simply can't without blowing an ult or something. If you're passively farming during what is probably the most important part of the game, you're throwing away that opportunity to get ahead early.
@Tyakos: The hero is NOT bad in general, just that 90% of PA players don't seem to understand how she works.
Hero sucker. Naix better in every way. PA hero to weak, low hp, squisher. Get other hero, naix void or PL. not pa.
Remember that dagger is pure damage. When the dagger crits it hurts early game. It's just keeping the mana levels up that can be the problem.
Maybe medallion then? Being able to spam dagger is quite important for PA IMO. At level 7 you can do 90 damage every 8 seconds (roughly 650dmg per minute) + chance to Crit for 225 damage, which you should get at least one. You still need 50 to blink in after though, and maybe another 50 so you can blink out too. I think this is what can draw you into building Battle Fury. Perseverance tempts you in with its lovely regen in both areas. The mana cost and damage is just setup to hurt her early game though.
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I've been playing lots of PA,but theres still a argument whether to buy battlefury.
Battlefury for PA,gives her more farming ability,splash damge,and regen
but it does not provide any survivability and will hinder your late game items
So what do you say? Buy or not? Core or situational?