General Discussion[Discussion] Vengeful Spirit

"Maxing armor reduction vs maxing wave."

wave is the amour reduction :3

ZZZZ lol edited

Clearly too tired for this shit lol.

I think that the Wave adds more damage to the earlygame, didn't do the math though.

^I believe this too currently. Hence why Im trying to get someone to punch come numbers for me.
#Paging Relentless

idk if you care for dotabuff statistics but I think it's at least worth a look at
http://dotabuff.com/heroes/vengeful-spirit/builds

Maxing stun seems pretty meh to me.

sigh I guess I am doing the math

wave

1 15.3% +30
2 19.4% +50
3 23.1% +70
4 26.5% +90

aura

1 12%
2 20%
3 28%
4 36%

personally I pref 1 point in wave then the rest in the aura because

A) always active
B) scales better

It all depends on the game, if you spent the whole game roaming you could even argue just maxing stun for the nuke damage. If it's passive laning forever (if that ever happens) then you might as well get the aura because it helps your carry last hit. Usually I go max wave though, because in teamfights you often initiate by swapping and thus probably die; your wave will stay on them but your damage aura will not.

the aura gives a negative debuff if you die....

What you should NOT do IMHO is maxing the stun. Doesn't scale well and it consumes just more mana.
Max the aura first to boost your team overall output, followed by 1 point in the stun and the rest in the wave.

Wave is also a skill to consider, especially (and here i might be wrong) VS chars who have low base armor.

^ correct

http://dota2.gamepedia.com/Armor

edit: correct on the fact that it is stronger on heroes with lower base armor

Aura is only good if your teammates buy many +stats items (Morphing, Phantom Lancer, Terrorblade, Drow Ranger). If they go for pure damage items like Daedalus, MKB or Divine Rapier, wave is much better in that case.

^ by the time you have those items you will alrdy have gotten both skilled up

Ok, aura has nothing to do with Phase Boots or Shadow Blade - cheap, fast and popular items.

shadow blade is a god awful item on anyone cept slark

^You know it, I know it, but try to explain it to your teammates in game...

they dont deserve dmg then

The thing with maxing aura first is that it pushes the lane. If you're decided to roam, then do it, but if you're babysitting better skip it and put your points on wave.

I would say that increasing all physical damage your team is doing in a teamfight after you die is generally more useful than decreasing the right-click damage of a single hero for the duration of your death.

^
It affects every hero in a 900 radius around your killer.

Really? Man I need to read patchnotes more lol. But even with that I still think increasing damage in a teamfight is more important ... you kill them more quickly instead of them killing you more slowly.

It depends on the lineup you are against and what you intend to do with the hero but realistically your best bet is to max the wave as I doubt you will be trying to take people on 1v1 in most cases and the minus armor really does do more if your barreling down on someone.

I think the only time I recently maxed stun was http://dotabuff.com/matches/473712978 here due to squishy heroes and also needed to lock out the weaver for longer periods of time and burst him down as well as maxing the armor for the bristle. Most of the time I go like a 1-2-3-2-3-6 kinda build but I don't feel venge is too underused if you max one over the other.

Like some people mentioned before me I would only max aura in cases where I am roaming cause if it was in lane you will push it out more than you would like so the wave would be better in this case. Roaming works better in pubs I feel as most of my more recently venge games were played in TMM and CM/CD modes which were more coordinated.

I say max stun. You need burst early.

You'd certainly max stun against, say, a Terrorblade, or a Weaver, right?

I would say to max stun if you plan on roaming more, never max wave first, max aura if you plan on pushing fast as a team. Then there's exceptions but you'll figure it out

I'm pretty sure you would max wave first against high hp low armor targets, like if you were part of a dual offlane and you could gank their jungle Doom. Max stun is good for exploding elusive targets and squishies.