U might not need diffusal but manta is kind of ridiculous dps with desolate.
You can skip it if u don't need it, but all item builds are situational, and with just abyssal bkb, I feel like you might lack dmg.
Good point. Id be interested to see how much less damage you get from my build. It seems like i play spec to try to survive and tank everything out rather than DPS'ing to carry. I abuse the Dispersion Talent. 30% damage reflection you want to take as much damage as you can is my thinking
butterfly is pretty much the best Agi Carry item in the game. I think the evasion is less important than the MS, Attack Speed, and DMG
Right but those criterias are already offered by manta so if we had the item already i think tanky items like skadi and heart are better on her than b-fly
"Spectre uses Manta just as much for the Dispel as he does for the stats and illusions."
its a she
sorry, i just couldnt resist
More serious comment this time, ive seen people go for the dagger talent at lv20. With one Q you get a shitton of ms and slow, 40% for both values, and this way you can get on top of enemies with haunt; meaning you dont need diffusal/abyssal(and it lasts 12 seconds too), and then you can make up for lack of 500hp with items since you dont really need any control from items. So if you want to get on top of enemies out of position maybe you could try this instead of abyssal?
And yeah i personally get manta with damage/mobility/one dispel in mind, bkb gives less damage (but magic immunity obviously), so i think you can get both (or none) depending on the game
Ya i think my logic behind BKB is i see teams with like a Disruptor/Lion/Shadow Shaman all the heroes with Huge Lockdown and Magic Damage and i just dont think Manta cuts it sometimes.
Perfect example is a Lina or SF mid. BKB literally removes almost all their damage vs a spec because Physical damage doesnt hurt spec too bad. So its like manta will get 1 or 2 shot but those heroes and then you are back at square 1. Whereas if you BKB a lina what the fuck is she gonna do besides Run or Euls.
The only way to kill a spec is to Stun him and lock him down. BKB makes it nearly impossible to do that.
Obviously if they have a BKB piercing stun like AXE it might not be a good item that game.
well yeah bkb is pretty good against disruptor shaman etc, you will have to buy it eventually for sure
but then again, you dont really want to get an early bkb on spectre i think, you still need some sort of damage (besides radiance) and/or survivability, after all usually enemies have some physical damage too
unlike pa or troll spectre is like the best late game hero, you can afford to give up a 10s bkb power spike to get it later on
Skipping manta when you have radiance seems suboptimal. that's a lot of safe farm you are sacrificing. I could see selling it later on if you really don't care about desolate damage (which is fair enough) but manta must be worth 3-400GPM mid-game especially if you are behind and have no map control.
You should've give an honorable mention to blademail (instead of Aquila?) if you're going to face a snowballing glass-cannon 20mins in.
If you are getting Vanguard but not manta, which level 10 talent do you get? you can skip the regen if you have vanguard but you clearly don't care about desolate damage if you aren't getting manta.
Honestly I don't think Vanguard is necessary for several reasons. You have 10 hp regen talent, your passive makes you tanky already, and urn gives you STR, and charges for heals or team fights.
Getting vangaurd delays your radiance.
With Threads / Aquila / Urn, or Phase / Aquila / Urn, a spec is already ready to fight.
Her passive already gives him tankiness, you get stats, you get HP And Mana regen, and you can also be aggressive with the urn.
Vanguard just delays radiance in my opinion. Good players will just punish it.
Spec is a very strong hero of course and can definitely get away with Vanguard, but i wouldn't underestimate her ability to go without it.
I disagree. Getting vanguard does not delay Radiance at all. Most game I get vanguard treads and aqualia and am hitting my radiance timing at around 22 minutes.
Vanguard doesnt delay your radiance at all. Rather it allows you to be self sufficient and farm for the next 10 minutes without ever having to go back to base or really even ask for help.
The biggest way to beat spectre is to delay his Radiance timing by killing him. Building vanguard and the Regen Talent will ensure you will not die in the early to mid game. Which is really all spectre needs.
Sure if you skip your vanguard you might have a 18-20 minute radiance but more often than not skipping vanguard will allow enemy team to kill you and set you back. The way my timings go I will usually be hitting radiance right around the time that I get my lvl 12 ultimate.
It is basically a safer way to play the hero so that people cannot punish your weak early game.
getting a midgame item doesnt delay ur radiance more than getting dumpstered without it will
ur talking abt bkb reducing the enemies dmg, but spec doesnt care if she takes dmg, she wants to take dmg so those spells arent used on her team since she can usually absorb it
starting items: 5 iron branches and 3 sets of tangos. Finish your arcane boots asap, then disassemble to make your bloodstone as fast as u can. then get travels, octarine, sheep stick, shivas and dagon 5.
1) check 35th overall best Spectre www.dotabuff.com/heroes/spectre/players
2) Spectre is easy in lower Tiers where inspite of whatever early and mid game advantage a team has, games will "often" still go late game 40 mins++
3) "Vanguard allows you to be self-sufficient without having to go back to fountain."
This statement is subjective to playstyle.
i. Farming by Jungling therefore being able to tank neutrals?
--> Try HP regen talent
--> mana problems, unless you ocassionally fly a clarity or 2x while jungling or just right click neuts and dont spam a level 4 dagger
ii. Farming a little dangerously by pushing out lanes (i.e. extending 1 more creep wave, surviving ganks etc)
--> can be "mitigated" by map awareness
Alternatively, you can build Urn of Shadows
i. Cheaper item which becomes useful as soon as 5 mins (depends whether you build it before or after PB, Wand)
ii. Can be used offensively to finish off enemies or to save allies.
iii. Jungling: HP regen talent, timely shrines, couple of clarities and TP to base + haunt right before a clash is more than enough
My 2 cents,
- Vanguard is essential not as a farming/sustain tool but more of a defensive item against Physical DPS heavy team. But even then, it doesn't make it a must buy and largely depends on timing and playstyle.
4. Manta + Diffusal vs Abyssal / BKB
--> Abyssal as 1st item is very situational. I can't think of any, other than if your team doesn't have lockdown or slow (which can be solved by Diffusal) and the enemy lineup is very mobile (ie. Clinkz, Weaver, Invoker etc).
Alternatively, Manta gives you more versatility.
i. Stats
ii. DPS
iii. Dodge / confuse single target enemies
iv. Dispel
v. targeting multiple heroes to disable blink/escape
and many others..
Diffusal is situational, usually ok to build against mobile enemy lineups and lack of lockdown and stuns.
In cases when I need to build diffusal, often times I have to prioritize it ahead of Manta and then sometimes I skip Manta altogether. Because the need for diffusal is to catch mobile heroes which often means we win teamfights easy.
I have so much more to say on other items and gameplay but this should suffice for the discussion about Abyssal vs Manta / Diffusal
Vanguard is for early surviving and farming jungle peacefully if you cant show up on lanes. If you dont get at least hood, you are an easy target for the enemy.
Nowadays I only pick spec against a tinker and go BM, HoT and Mkb/Abysal after radiance and vanguard.
biggest problem with vanguard before radiance is you are extending the riskiest/weakest period of the game (when you have >3k gold saved for relic) further into the midgame. 10-15mins is generally a lot safer than 15-20min. not saying vanguard is a good or bad item, just that if you have a window to save up for relic without being punished for it then you should probably go for it.
Vanguard before radi seems pretty dogshit. If I wanted a cheap fighting item blademail is much better, if I want sustain I'd take my lvl 10 hp talent. Imo just treads+aquila+wand->radi rush is fine most games, blademail is super impactful before/after radi for cheap as well.
Later on manta is absolutely core, abyssal is strong after manta imo but not necessary unless you really need to blow up one backliner like spectre/sniper. Bkb is best as a 6 slot item when a 10 second bkb spectre is totally unstoppable, generally you only need manta for dispel and you are set.
My SPECTRE builds are Phase Boot, Vanguard, Radiance, Blademail, Duffusal or Manta, then Heart then Abbysal Blade..well it always defends on the enemy heroes...if theres a tinker,.sniper or drow on enemy sure apectre is a good choice. ez kill if u have PB, Vanguard, Rad and BM. then u can go manta for dispel...or bkb for ez kill support.
^^ What CutnPaste said, basically.
It’s hilarious how many dogsh1t Spectre players swear by Vanguard and do stupid stuff like skip Aquila XD.
Blademail early if u need to fight before radiance. Get after if ur team doesn't really want to fight. If no annoying glass canons then just go manta heart pretty safe build
Soul ring seems pretty okay (although I haven't tried it) considering how you can spam dagger even more after the cdr talent buff yet she doesn't really get raw mana/mana regen items other than skadi/aquila/stick/raindrop and I'm sure you don't want to clump up your slot with so many cheap items
I'm not a fan of the vanguard build, I always go for damage. Just with a spirit vessel and manta I can solo a PA easy. I always get Phase boots, Aquila, Urn. depending on the opposing team I would build battlefury/Radiance, some times I skip them both and go straight manta and spirit Vessel, Skadi, Butterfly, Bloodthorn. She is already hard to kill, why not make the others easy to kill?
The only time I go early vanguard is if I was forced to get a Ring of Health during laning and I know there is a slippery core on the other team that I'm going to have to take care of sooner rather than later. It does mean you can skip the regen talent but you'll struggle for mana without Aquila or blademail. you probably want phase if you get vanguard? which is also questionable...
pretty sure oyu should do everything in your power to avoid getting a pre-radiance vanguard anyway.
Either your strategy is to tank as much damage as you can (which is what you said) , or you want to avoid damage (which is what BKB does). Not sure which one but either way Game is usually decided after first 3-4 core items.
If you need vangard for hp regen or farming jungle isn`t healing salve far cheeper, for that? That block isn`t worth 2k goolds, for just tank creeps, in fight 0 demage, and not so much for pick offs, nether. Really don`t see what vangard gives you.
Block on Spec is insanely good against melee heroes. You deal the pre-Blocked damage as dispersion and Block counts on the post-dispersion-reduced damage (which then gets reduced by armor) Mid-game, level 4 Dispersion+vanguard is like a permanent physical damage Blademail to enemy melee heroes. (only better cos their damage is also reduced)
Hi,
Ever considered since there are two talent trees there are possibly two viable builds: one with VG and one without?
100 matches with him and KDA of 6.01
I generally support the notion that going for VG slows specter down if going for radiance.
Regards
Gecko
As soon as a blue star says something all of you switch opinions and swear by what he said.
Smh stick to your guns.
Stand up for autism.
As soon as a blue star says something all of you switch opinions and swear by what he said.
ive been against vg spec for basically 2 years cmonbruh
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Hi guys,
Spectre is one of my best heroes and obviously strongest carries in the game currently. I have been having HUGE success on her and I think it might have to do with the change in my item build.
The obvious initial items Treads/Aquilia/Vanguard into radiance. Some games you might not need the aquilia and could do with just a wand but those 3 items are the basis for a good spec game. Usually if you can get those around 8-12 minutes you will have an easy time getting radiance.
MAIN CHANGE: After Radiance. I used to try to get Manta Diffusal blade after radiance. I am realizing that you really dont need either item. Instead of Manta Diffusal I have started getting Abysal Blade BKB. They pretty much provide the same thing you are looking for from the Manta Diffusal but IMO in an even better utility.
Abysal naturally builds from the Vanguard while also giving you the bash chance and active. My main reason for having Abysall is because you can ult and immediately active someone who is not positioned well. It doesnt matter if it is their support initiation or HC. It is a guarenteed kill on pretty much any hero if played properly.
BKB: Spectre uses Manta just as much for the Dispel as he does for the stats and illusions. BKB is a good alternative that is slightly cheaper and seems a little better for what spectre really needs. Giving Magic Immunity to a tanky hero that has good mobility seems better for me than a manta that might make you slightly more powerful but might not provide the real defense you need as spectre.
Also building Abysal BKB gives you the HP you need to skip the Heart and build Butterfly first. Allowing you flexibility on your last item. (I usually get either Heart, Skadi, or I have been loving Nullifier for that lategame lockdown when everyone has 4 active items to use.)
Just thought I would share. I think BKB Abysal is better than Manta Diffusal. Let me know what you think.
(PS) if you want to see some of my recent spec games I have been demolishing my oponents. Multiple perfect games with 0 deaths. Road 2 Divine